www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope affirms commitment to building unity with Greek Orthodox Church

Alex,

What do you suggest the Orthodox do to show us Catholics that they are also serious about unity?

I'd very much enjoy a list such as the one you posted for Catholics to follow!

I have my own ideas, but yours are far more interesting, so I'll decline to share mine.

In the meantime, we could stop handing over all our relics (especially the ones we rightfully pilfered! ) to the EO's or we'll be left with no relics to venerate!

I'm only kidding!

Logos Teen

Djs,

Is Andrew's understanding only wrong in so far as a Catholic is obliged to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass, if one is reachable?

Logos Teen

Alex, it simply isn't my place to judge, nor is it my wish to do so. I acknowledge only that our churches are not in communion and have some significant differences over matters of faith. I would attend a service at an Eastern Catholic Church (and I have before) if for some reason there was an occasion for me to do so and it did not conflict with a service at my own church. I would not seek to partake of communion at an EC church, nor would it be my wish to do so. That is not born out of antipathy, but only out of acknowledgement that there isn't unity of faith and it is not my place to presuppose there is. I hope that seems like a reasonable response to your question.

Also, it seems my understanding of the Sunday obligation in the CC is incorrect. I would be interested to know if somebody could post the details of exactly what the requirement is. I�ll state again my understanding was that for a Catholic, no matter which church or rite, there is an obligation to attend a Catholic service if one is within reasonable physical proximity in order to fulfill their weekly obligation; and that once this obligation is fulfilled they could attend other services as outlined within the norms of Catholic ecumenism.

Andrew

Dear Alex,

I have known Orthodox men who openly and arrogantly deny Christ's Divinity, or who really don't believe much in God at all, and yet partake of the Eucharist out of tradition or for their family's sake.

WHO exactly is the heretic here--certainly NOT you!!!

Therefore, if I were an Orthodox priest, (which I am not, nor ever will be!) I would, in good conscience of guarding the Holy Eucharist, offer it to ones as devout, loving, and charitably devoted to Christ as you and Matt, over ones as scandalous as those others.

With love in Christ,
Alice

Just re-stating the rules on the Catholic side.

Faithful of the Orthodox Churches (Eastern and Oriental), the Assyrians, and of the PNCC are all welcome to partake Holy Communion in any Catholic Church, with only the reminder that these faithful respect the discipline of their own respective Churches.

A Catholic priest, at least of the Latin Rite, will not hesitate to give communion to any one who approaches the chalice, on the assumption that the communicant is predisposed to receive.

Catholics can receive Holy Communion from the above Churches, if they are allowed to do so, because the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of their sacraments.

Amado

What I remember hearing from two clergymen:

Latin: obligation is Sundays and various Holy Days of Obligation. An Orthodox Divine Liturgy counts if no Catholic Mass/DL or substitute is available.

Byzantine: there is no "obligation" in the strict Latin sense (i.e. no "miss one required Mass and you're in mortal sin"); however you excommunicate yourself if you miss any four services (i.e. Vespers, Orthros, DL) in a row without good reason. If no BC Church is in the area you may go to an Orthodox one in lieu of a Latin one.

Again, just what I remember hearing. Any corrections from clergy are welcome.

I found the Principles and Norms on Ecumenism [vatican.va] on the Vatican site.

Andrew

A lot of good points have been made. I think Andrew's statement gets to the heart of the matter:

I'd like to add that we might try to focus a little more on what's common to our churches' positions on inter-communion.

Also, I like to point out that the Vatican's rules aren't always followed either. (For example, two years ago a Catholic friend and I visited an Episcopalian church for their Easter Vigil. When I noticed my friend going forward and receiving communion ... well, let's just say that I was a bit surprised.)

Many years,
Peter.

Did Eugene Melnyk buy St. Peter's or something?

I have been re reading the postings here and I agree with Alice about going teasy of detials, names and locations etc. In the Byzantine camp there are some very grey areas here that we who are in the camp be they Orthodox or Byzantine Catholic are comfortable with. Latins may not understand as they really dont have any opposite Churches as we do. The late Metropolitan Nikodim who died in the arms of Pope John Paul I was said to have concelebrated with Catholics. I dont doubt for a moment that he did now and again and on the quiet. Saying Orthodox are this and Catholics are that, does not really reflect how we in fact engage with each other at the personal level.

Some time ago a Patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church came to Australia to bless a new Church in Melbourne. I was invited to attend a public function to meet with HH. The Patriarch and the Catholicos had only just signed some memorandum or other with the Pope in regard to intercommunion in case of need. At the function HH announced that Catholics could come to communion the following day when he blessed the new building. Now we looked at each other and said that this was not our understanding of what had just been signed. However we soon got over that and if HH was OK about it then we were as good as in the communion line from that point. We were NOT going to take on HH. Obviously HH thought this was a case of need. He does not come to Australia that often.

Am I making any sense here? I am not saying we dont follow the proper order of things as the norm but that there are certain situations what are sort of grey areas.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Pavel you said:

"Some time ago a Patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church came to Australia to bless a new Church in Melbourne."

I say:

The Patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church faces reality when it comes to ecumenical relations with the Catholics. He has to, because he finds himself in a very precarious part of the world.

How I wish other Orthodox would also see the need for intercommunion. You know of course that in the Gulag, intercommunion was quite common.

Zenovia

Yes I had heard of such things. The clergy in the 1920 imprisoned in the White Sea Monastery also were very close and supportive of each other during the terror. When the Russian Catholic Exarch died he was buried by an Orthodox Priest.

ICXC
NIKA

My understanding is that while there are circumstances where a Catholic CAN receive communion in an EO Church according to Catholic heirachy, an Orthodox priest is not allowed to give it to them, due to the position of their church heirachy.
Is that correct?

N

Not strictly speaking. It depends on what has been agreed between the 2 Churches. What the rules are for coming to communion, such as confession first etc. Will it cause scandal (is a major consideration) to the congregation.

ICXC
NIKA