www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Weeping Icons And Statues

Iconophile,

The icon card was of the Mother of God and Child by Photios Kontoglou which had been anointed with tears from the original weeping icon at Camp Nazareth. The anointing was done several days before and the anointing left only a small mark on the icon. Several days passed and on the evening of the Dormition getting ready to pray in my icon corner I noticed tears streaking from the Mother of Gods eyes. Visually it really wasn't that impressive a single tear from each eye quite small, it was the smell that really grabbed your attention. In fact my parent's when the returned from Mass that evening wanted to know who spilled perfume and this from downstairs. Many other both at Camp Nazareth and those who had icons anointed with tears from the original had this occur as well.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Theist Gal

You state:"I'm not saying it never happens but what would be the point if most people were (rightly) skeptical about it?"

That is the point, the Orthodox are not skeptical but nor are they apparition chasers. When these things happen the people rejoice and some will make a pilgrimage but it is taken in stride. It is seen for the gift that it is but it is also recognized that the Holy Mysteries are a greater gift. None of the sensationalism, hysteria, or media grubbing that all too often occurs with modern Roman apparitions or "miraculous images of the Virgin in water stains" accompanies these miracles.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Father Deacon Lance,

When my grandfather was a priest under the Soviets, an apparition of the Mother of God appeared on his parish's window - another of the Last Supper appeared elsewhere.

People immediately began pilgrimages to the image, with bus-loads coming from all over.

My grandfather was placed under arrest by the Soviet police who charged him with fraudulent activity to raise money!

But Fr. John insisted that the image only resembled a religious image - he said it was being caused by the process of "opalization" as another skeptical priest had suggested.

Eventually, he was let go and the image disappeared totally.

However, I know that there are such images in other places in Europe on glass - and at least one that I've heard of is venerated as a miraculous shrine.

Alex

Lviv Basilians Offer Statues of Mother of God to All Regional Centers

15.03, [12:39] // News // UGCC Info


Lviv -- The Order of St. Basil the Great in western Ukrainian Lviv and the Dmytro Vitovskyi Sich Organization have offered to erect a statue of the Mother of God in every regional center of Ukraine. This news was reported by Radio Lvivska Khvylia ("Lviv Wave) on 12 March 2004.

The Basilian Fathers and Sich are planning to do fundraising to make the statues and then present them to all Ukrainian regional centers. Regional administrations will only have to find places to locate the statues. According to Fr. Yosafat Vorotniak of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, one of the initiators, this idea has been supported by all Ukrainian churches, except for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate.

According to the organizers, currently statues to the Mother of God are in Lviv, Kherson, Yalta, Kyiv, Vinnytsia, and Odesa. It is expected that the next city to have such a statue will be eastern Ukrainian Kharkiv.

Source: Radio Lvivska Khvylia

A good observation on your part.

Message - delievered - in an unusual way and without the use of extra ordinary means.

And your responce is well also. "Wow - look at how He did that!"

I don't know who else go the message - but it is clear that you did.

-ray

Most Catholics have some personal experience but keep it private. I was somewhat surprise, during the years I researched these things - at how many Roman Catholics have personal experiences that they do not generally speak about. It is common RC personal experience either in way of being aware of some natural event (which is far too coincidental to be anything else by the hand of God) or some out-right phenomena.

In such a large membership base as the RC it is inevitable that some events will be genuine and some not - that some will chase these things while others do not.

It is kind of like the �1% rule�.
1% of 100 is 1
1% of 1000 is 10
And 10 is greater than 1

So automatically many more Catholics chase apparitions because there are simply - many more Catholics than Orthodox. Many more Catholics also do not chase apparitions - than Orthodox do.

It boils down to - many more Catholics.

I find the best way to be about it is that if it comes into one�s life in some way it is best to say �Thanks be to God.� and if one never bumps into anything like this it is best to say �Thanks be to God.�

It certainly is a part of the spiritual life that is very misunderstood but none the less God occationally uses for his own reasons when he thinks it wise to do so.

I am just adding to the discussion. I have no criticism nor am I pretending I know all about it.

-ray

Dear Ray,

The issue of why Catholics go after apparitions more than the Orthodox has been, at times, dealt with by Eastern theologians.

One article I came across on this subject in university was by a Greek-Catholic author (he attended St Volodymyr and Olha parish in Chicago - Eugene Ivankiw).

The laity of the Eastern Churches have had, by far, a great historical and integral connection to the public liturgical offices of the Church in their daily prayers.

One reason for this is that the services have always been in a language that they could understand i.e. Slavonic and later the national languages.

But, in the West, the laity, according to this view, have tended to be alienated from the liturgical services, as these were in Latin and the uneducated simply could not access them.

This and a greater clericalization in the West, among other things, led to the phenomenon of a "priestly spirituality" and a "lay spirituality."

The priests/monastics prayed and otherwise fully participated in the public prayer of the Church - the Mass and the Divine Office.

The laity developed a spirituality that tried to closely approximate the offices. Thus, the Little Office of the Virgin Mary as a substitute for the Divine Office, the Rosary, both Pater Noster and Hail Mary, as a substitute for the Psalms.

And there grew a great devotion among the laity for private revelations and miracles, as if to confirm that God was truly speaking to them as well, that the laity were not on the periphery of the Church etc.

Paraliturgical devotions were eventually allowed by the Latin Church and even blessed. They drew the laity to Church and excited devotion where the Divine Office and the Psalms did not.

The East also has many instances of miraculous occurrences associated with Saints and Icons of the Mother of God.

But these are always immediately integrated into the public, liturgical life of the Church.

Saints are glorified for veneration in the Church and icons are likewise glorified and assigned feast-days etc.

The faith of the Eastern laity is informed by the rich theology contained in the liturgical tradition already - not by communications received via private revelations or miracles. The Eastern laity are very conversant with the liturgical offices that they not only attend in Church, but bring into their homes.

Akathists, a public liturgical service, have been adapted, along with Canons and Molebens/Supplicatory Services, to the needs of the laity so that any layperson may use them.

Saying the daily Offices is something expected of the laity in the East in a way it is not in the West, together with other primarily monastic practices like the Jesus Prayer.

In a sense, miraculous occurences involving Icons are almost always experienced IN CHURCH by the East or if they are experienced at home - the icon is immediately brought to church for veneration of the entire Church.

There is a wonderful union of public and private in terms of worship in the East that I, for one, just don't see in the West.

And I think this can explain why the West and the Latin laity have such a tremendous fascination with private revelations and miraculous occurences.

Alex

Dear Lawrence,

In response to your original question; yes.

As my circle tends to be the Albanian and Greek Orthodox parishes, that is where I saw the two weeping icons.

The first was at St. Nicholas Albanian Orthodox Church at 2701 Narragansett Ave. across from "the Brickyard" in Chicago (I see that you are in Illinois). This parish is under Bishop Ilia (Katre) and the Albanian Orthodox Diocese of America [within the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Constantinople].

I drove in for three hours from a project on the Mississippi (Savanna Army Depot), but it was worth it.

When I visited, this icon of the All Holy Theotokos and Christ was no longer flowing profusely, but while it had, an estimated one to two million people passed through.

I already had a personal connection since my family from Boston had gone there when an aunt was dying of cancer in order to annoint her with the oil. It strengthened her, but she later fell asleep. I've carried a paper reproduction of the icon in my wallet now for ten years.

I was blessed to visit again a few years later while in Chicago. The Church is covered with iconography in the true Byzantine tradition. I highly recommend a visit.


The other weeping icon was a paper one that had miraculously survived a house fire in Worcester, Massachusetts during which a handicapped believer perished. The priest placed the icon on a stand in St. Mary's Dormition/Assumption Albanian Orthodox Church on Salisbury St. in Worcester where it gushed oil inside of its frame. This parish is under Bishop Nikon (Liolin) of the Albanian Orthodox Archdiocese in America [within the jurisdiction of the OCA]. Veneration was kept low key. I've visited St. Mary's frequently and seen the icon, but it wasn't weeping.

They say that God reveals himself to those who need His revellations the most. Sometimes we may begin to think that He has revealed himself to others because their faith is weak and that He hasn't revealed himself to us because our faith is strong. But then I remember...Perhaps He is revealing Himself to me, but like the stubborn "...they have eyes but see not, they have ears, but hear not..."

In Christ,
Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Indeed, these miracles are needed for many folks...some whose faith has grown lukewarm, or whose faith always was lukewarm, and for those of us whose faith may be strong, but still need to know and feel the presence of God, His Most Holy Mother, and the saints, through these miracles.

My mother witnessed the famous crying icon of our Lady Theotokos in Long Island, N.Y. in the early 1960's. (This crying icon was even written up in the NY Times, at the time) At the time, although a baptized Orthodox, my mother was basically non-believing. The miracle helped jumpstart a very long journey of deep faith for her.

On the island of Aegina in Greece, the body of St. Nektarios reposes at the monastery he founded for nuns at the end of his life. In the small chapel on the grounds wherein lies his marble casket, visitors line up to put an ear to the marble. Many have heard, (including myself) the tapping of his cane against the marble from within.

It is amazing how many people are absolutely radiant, and verbally excited, after hearing the tapping. These good people exhibit the spiritual need many people have to experience a miracle.

In Christ,
your Orthodox sister,
Alice

Dear Alice,

I once met an RC priest who had a photograph of an apparition of Our Lady in the garden of the Martyrs' Shrine at Midland, Ontario.

He was on a walk through it when he saw Her (no mistake about it - she also held a large pair of beads with a Cross in her hands - could it have been a rosary? ).

And you could see right through her in the picture.

The priests there are "mum" on the entire situation and it was only by accident that I came across the photo. I wasn't supposed to see it . . .

At Zeitun in Egypt, the Mother of God was photographed above the Coptic Church there and the man who snapped the picture was immediately healed of an eye disease that was slowly making him go blind . . .

Alex

Regarding miracles, does anyone know of the "annual" miracle that happens at the Holy Seplacur (sp?) in Jerusalem? I remember reading a few years ago about one priest entering the tomb of Our Lord with an unlit candle and then coming out of the holy tomb his candle is lit and the light jumps around the crowds in attendance. This happens every year at Easter.

Does anyone know what I'm thinking about? And can anyone give a more discriptive explanation?

Dear Rose2,

The miracle which you are referring to is called the miracle of the 'Holy Fire'. Go to: www.holyfire.org [holyfire.org] (click on English) and read all about the miracle and impressions of the writer's own experience there.

Dear Alex,

I have seen that photo on the internet of the apparition in Egypt. It is truly amazing!

With love in Christ,
Alice

P.S. Alex, the RC priest who saw that beautiful apparition and photographed it must be very holy to have been given so great a gift!

Click here to see the apparition of our Lady in Egypt:

http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm

when you get to that sight, also click on 'How the Virgin Mary made her apparition at Al-Zitoun', and scroll down to see the most amazing REAL photo of the apparition!

Dear Alice,

ONe of our parish priests, now reposed, Fr. Yuri Fedoriw, travelled to Zeitun and interviewed a number of people who saw the Mother of God there for a little booklet he wrote and published in Ukrainian.

He said that even the Protestants of Egypt came to praise the Mother of God (an Evangelical Protestant leader was heard crying, "Holy Virgin Mary and Mother of Jesus, I see you!!").

And the Muslims unrolled expensive prayer rugs over the sand and sidewalks to stand on during their prayer at Her apparitions.

Even the President of Egypt (the one before Anwar Sadat, I forget his name) came one night incognito and saw the Virgin Mary of Zeitun - he then told the authorities to "leave the Christians alone."

Alex

Dear Alex,

...to your post, all I can say is 'very cool'!

Most Holy Mother of God, save us!

Alice