www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings The movie...how much did Satan know?

Hello everyone,

About Jesus, the Cross, and our redemption, how much did Satan know before hand? My bible study teacher said that some things were hidden from Satan, i.e. that the Messiah would be born of a virgin, who the identity of the Woman (Mary) would be.

But after watching "The Passion of the Christ" I am wondering, if Satan knew that Jesus came to redeem mankind from sin and therefore save a remnant from the devil's possession, why didn't he try to stop Jesus from dying on the Cross? It appears to me that when Peter wanted to stop Jesus from dying Jesus said to him "Get behind Me, Satan!" (Mat 16:21-23) showing that Satan would want to stop Jesus' sacrifice if he knew about it. Yet in the movie and in the gospels are we to presume that Satan was influencing Jesus' enemies to put Him to death? So that if Jesus was no longer alive He couldn't accomplish His mission? Was the Cross itself a mystery that Satan did not know of?

Thanks -- Brad

I have not seen the movie, so I am writing only what I have gathered from my theological studies and personal speculation.
First, the devil is a creature, like we are, albeit an angelic intelligence. Thus, while infinitely more subtle than we are, he does not possess anything like divine knowledge. So he cannot, for example, read our minds. He must draw his conclusions from the evidence. He can therefore be deluded, and is often blinded by his own evil [just as we can be].
So, he would not neccesarily have known that Jesus Christ was God Incarnate. He would have perceived that something was up and that this was no ordinary man, but the deepest Mysteries would have been hidden from him. Thus bringing about the death of Christ may have seemed prudent to him.
CS Lewis seems to have captured the Devil's deception [by his own delusion] in his various works...
I hope this clarifies more than it confuses.

Well written in such short space.

-ray

I think Satan knew Jesus was the Messiah.

There were at least two attempts at killing Jesus in the Gospels- Herod's slaughter of the male infants, and an incident in which a crowd wanted to stone Jesus for claming to be the Son of God. Both times, he escaped, once because of Joseph being warned to flee by an angel, once, well, he just sort of walked away.

I think Satan knew very well who the Christ was, but may not have fully understood his mission. He may have thought that God planned to set up an Eartly kingdom rather than a Heavenly one, and so getting Jesus killed by any means would have been perceived as a good thing.

Dear Friends.

I agree that Satan was aware that Jesus was sent by God and had a special purpose on Earth, but that Satan had an insufficient grasp of what that purpose was.

Perhaps, in his blindness, Satan could not see the divinity of Jesus, (seeing only a man sent by God) and did not realize the depth of God's purpose and plan of salvation?

Also, in the desert, the attempt was made to offer Jesus all the earthly kingdoms if HE would turn away from the mission HE had been sent to do. Satan did try to interfere with God's plan, even when he had imperfect knowledge of what it was.

Strangely enough, I remember a previous discussion on the Forum about the belief, held in the Ethiopian Church, that Pontius Pilate is a Saint, because he was carrying out his necessarypart of God's plan of salvation.
I don't quite get it, but maybe someone else can fill us in?

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Yes, I'm sure that Satan knew Jesus was the Messiah. I said he didn't possess divine knowledge, not that he was stupid.
And he knew Jesus was born of a virgin, and was "the Son of God" [demons proclaimed this if you recall].
I think Thea is right, though; he did not understand the nature of the Kingdom, being blinded by his own wickedness, and I doubt he knew that Jesus Christ was God Incarnate. He certainly did not grasp that suffering could be salvific and I'm sure the Resurrection was the worst shock the old booger ever received!

One thing we do know! Satan is not omniscient.
Stephanos I

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Concerning the movie, I would be interested in your opinions of the scene showing the devil carrying a child. The devil remains the murky, hooded female character but the child is portrayed as diabolical and, frankly, deliberately ugly.
What is the significance of the child?

Deacon El

Dear Father Deacon El,

I believe the child symbolizes the anti-Christ.

Mel Gibson based his movie not only on scripture, but also on the private visions and revelations of Ann Catherine Emmerich and others.

The scourging scene is clearly taken from Emmerich's graphic depictions, as interpreted by MG.

Alex

Dear Daniel,

Yes, you are right.

Some of the Eastern Fathers considered angelic intelligence to be so powerful that, had God allowed it, one angel could "reduce the world to a cinder with one movement of thought."

Devils are fallen angels and have lost nothing of their angelic powers that they use for evil purposes, including energizing us to sin when we least expect it, as the desert fathers taught.

Pere Lamy, a French priest now venerated widely in France, once saw a vision of a devil in the sacristy as he was vesting for Mass.

He began to heap abuse on the demon for daring to enter the Church.

At that point, the Archangel Gabriel appeared to the priest and told him NOT to put the demon down.

"If you want to hurt the devil, respect him for the (celestial, heavenly) angelic family from whence he came. This hurts him for it reminds him of how high in heaven he once was - and how low he has now fallen."

Mel Gibson did emphasize private revelations concerning Christ's Passion, such as those of Emmerich and others.

These revelations portray Satan as foolishly believing himself the victor over Christ in the Lord's arrest and Passion.

The devil believed that Christ would react against His enemies as the devil himself would have reacted - by destroying them etc.

The demons are said to have been in a state of shock when they saw Christ not resisting His enemies.

He Who had power omnipotent to destroy His enemies, submitted Himself meekly to their judgements, insults and tortures.

It is said that the demons then knew "they were done for" and understood how Christ was going to destroy their power, once and for all.

Alex

Dear Alex,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes, the Anti-Christ could be one aspect. What hit me is that the devil takes something good and twists it. So with the goodness of a mother and child, he shows a shocking, ugly, old baby. You have the prince of evil distorting what is created good. And when this takes place is when they turn Jesus over and scourge him on the front. So, when the shock effect is too much, then with devil/baby, you are shocked more.

That was my take, anyway.

Deacon El

Dear Father Deacon El,

Well, ultimately the movie was Mel Gibson's baby . . .

And he had, as I understand it, a devil of a time filming it.

It's a good thing Mel has never taken a vow of poverty!

Alex

Actually, Mel did take a vow of poverty . . . on the part of some Hollywood bigwigs who, one after another, scoffed at his movie proposal.

AmdG

Did Satan know who Jesus was? I think so. First of all, Satan was a fallen angel. So I would think that they were privy to some of the "plans" of the Father.
Furthermore, in Matthews account (8:28-34) the demons cry out: "What have we to do with you, Jesus, Son of God? Have you come to torment us before the time?"
They address him my his correct title.

I had an opportunity to see the movie. Lot's of food for thought. There is a wonderful 'review' of the movie posted on EWTN (news section) by a Sister. Worth the read.

Yurij

Dear Friends,

This is what Bl. Theophylact of Bulgaria, in his commentary on the Gospel of Luke, has to say in connection with the devil at the time of Our Lord's Crucifixion:

"The devil wanted to cast the Lord into evil repute, and so he caused two thieves to be crucified with Him. But see how the devil was deprived of one of these thieves, and how this became the cause of yet another glory for the Lord. Of the three crosses, the two upon which the thieves were executed have always been a matter of complete indifference. But the whole world clings to the Cross upon which the Lord was hung. What could make it more clear that the Lord was not a transgressor, as were the thieves, but is instead the Fountainhead of all righteousness? . . .

"Begrudging any good that he now feared might come through the Cross, the devil wanted to prevent it by any possible means . . . And there is yet another device of the devil that turns back on himself. For the devil had caused to be displayed in the letters of three languages Jesus' supposed crime of insurrection, so that every passersby would know that He had been hung on the Cross because He had made Himself a king. Yet what was intended by the devil as an accusation became instead a triumphant symbol that the most powerful of the nations, the Romans, and the most wise, the Greeks, and the most God-fearing, the Hebrews, would all be placed under the Kingship of Jesus and would acclaim Him. The devil, although wise in evil-doing, did not understand . . . By saving the thief, He also bound the devil, the vessel of evil, as the Lord foretold when He said that one must first bind the strong man and only then can he plunder the strong man's goods."

Alex