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Dear Walt,

But didn't St James say it more bluntly, that we are justified by works and not by faith alone?

Alex

My favorite person on EWTN is Fr Groeschel.
Sunday nights at 9.

He spoke about this issue -- faith vs works -- just he other night.

He said he's never seen a good Protestant that didn't try to do good. He's never seen a good Catholic that tried to do good that wasn't also filled with Faith. For Fr Groeschel, the whole argument is moot.

He ended his talk with Matthew 25 -- the Final Judgement. How many of us, if we were to face judgment today, in good conscience could say we
did feed the hungry, give to those who thirst, etc etc? How many of us would feel confident of
our salvation based on Matthew 25?

To Orthodox or Die:
When you limit God's mercy to only the Orthodox,
aren't you putting God in a box, limiting him to human ideas of Him? The goal of life is heaven, the vision of God. Everything around us are the means to that goal. Even the Church is only a means. It is the most holy and precious means we have -- but it is still a means. The Church is not a goal. There are other means than the Church. There is our everyday life and how we act within that life, within all the little trials and opportunities God provides us.
If someone who has never heard of Jesus, is not a member of the Orthodox Church, or the Catholic Church, yet is a shining example of someone who fulfills Matthew 25, then why would God not be merciful and shine His face on that person forever. I do not doubt there are millions of non-Christians who have very little material goods (food, drink, shelter, etc) that, because of their concept of God and His Law, happily share those goods with others around them who have less. We understand very little of God and His mercy. Let us not limit Him by our ideas His
mercy. Remember your article River of Fire?
Our human definition of justice, or our modern translation of justice is anthropomorphic -- rewards or punishments. Didn't the article say God's justice is merciful and loving.
John the Baptist said Jesus came to baptize with water and fire. Perhaps many of these non-Christians have been baptized by the Fire of God's Love.
denise

Dear Orthodox member,

James did write that we are justified by our works and not just our faith. Again, I remind you of the situation he is addressing. He is addressing proclaimed faith with no evidence of it showing. He is essentially saying that our works will justify (give evidence) to our faith. They go hand in hand. Even though Catholics and Protestants have argues over this, true followers of Christ will employ both. I know of Prostestants with a strong faith that have wonderful works to accompany it; and of Catholics performing works supporting their strong faith.

peace,

Walt Metrick

Dear Walt
I checked your profile. You are a services manager for a homeless shelter.

Matthew 25:35 .......I was a stranger and you took Me in.....

God Bless you, Walt. May He count you among the sheep on His right hand.
denise

Protestants may very well go to heaven before us. Because a lot of them do good things for other people and they have a lot of love for God, so much passion for Him. They have the fire for God.

Where's the love and passion of God in the Catholic/Orthodox churches? We have EVERYTHING...the Mysteries, Divine Liturgy, helpful devotions (i.e. Akathist, Rosary, etc.)...etc.

Let me use this analogy here...the Protestant Churches being the small piano...but when Protestants play it...they use EVERY keys possible.

And Catholic/Orthodox Churches...being the large piano, but people only play few keys. If Protestants were to convert to Catholic/Orthodox...they'd deaf-initely play every keys of the large piano. They very well may be a better Catholic/Orthodox than the cradle ones.

Protestants...may not have the fullness of the faith...and imperfect churches...which is NOT their fault.

SO God is indeed loving and merciful as opposed to "Orthodoxy or Death's" prideful statement that only Orthodox have salvation. There are many things that are going wrong with the Orthodox Church, for example...people may receive Holy Communion in the state of sin, since I hardly ever see people lining up for confession in the Church...besides that few former-Orthodox priests confirmed that fact. That's only one example.

There are many Catholics who have abortions. So...come on...salvation based on which Church you go to? Why not salvation based on how much faith and good works with it to show your faith??? I think God will go with the latter.

So I'd be careful before somebody judges others based on which Church they go to. Only God is the sole Judge.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Although I don't have any of my theology texts with me (I'm in a motel in Austin, Texas -- just my luck: trainings in New Mexico and Texas in August; Anchorage and Fairbanks in December. Oy.) But, it seems to me that we have to have both the faith to consecrate our good works ("love of God; love of neighbor") and likewise to have good works to demonstrate what we know through faith.

As for "God killed Jesus", this makes no sense to me. As I understand it, after the fall of Adam and Eve, our relationship with God was flawed. But, at 'the appointed time', Jesus was born and became the 'Christos', the Anointed One. By living His life among us ('truly God and truly man'), the process of our reconciliation with our Creator began. By experiencing death, He became truly 'one of us'. His death, however, was not an ordinary 'natural causes' death, but rather a death at the hands of those who did not live their lives in harmony with God's plan/mandate of loving God and loving one's neighbor as one's self. It was not "the Jews", nor "the Roman Government", nor any other group. It was the decision of those who were bereft of the graces that Christ told us to pray for.

Thus, we need to be constantly prayerful and ever vigilant to love God our Creator, and to perpetually serve our fellow human beings. It's an awesome responsibility; but, in God's Infinite Wisdom, we have been given the Holy Spirit whose graces are given to any and all who simply ask for them. Christ's death was a participation in our human reality prior to His resurrection. His manner of death is a sign of what is wrong with our human condition WITHOUT Him.

Lord: help us all to grow in love of You and our neighbors.

Blessings!