www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Did St Paul hate women, was a question posed by a friend

It seems to me a lot of liberals and feminists get angry if you suggest men and women are meant to have different roles in any way, shape, or form. In other words, I guess they see it like the "seperate but equal" idea. However, this seperate but equal status (ie. no women priests) is something decided by God, and ought not to be subject to democracy. The main concern of any Christian ought to be the Divine Plan for us (male and female alike) not feminism and "equal opportunity." Please don't throw the "male chauvanist pig" rock at me!

Christos Voskres!

Yes, and St. Jerome too. And St Augustine, who was married before he became a Christian. So, celibate men in the Church are evil because they never knew anything about women (I guess they never had mothers or sisters), or if they were married (as St. Augustine), their thinking is skewed. So no matter what side you take, you loose.

Nope.


There are two types of people... those who blame the sad state of thier lives on someone else and try to fix other people - and those who blame the sad state of thier lives on themselves and do something about it.

-ray

Just to clarify, Saint Augustine of Hippo never married. He did live with a woman for many years. within the first year of their liasion, the woman gave birth to a son, Adeodatus. With Augustine left Carthage for Italy, his mistress and son accompanied him. At the insistence of his mother, Monica, Augustine became engaged to the boy's mother, but the marriage was never realized. Adeodatus' mother left Milan for Carthage, and retired to a monastery, leaving the boy (now around twelve) with his father in Milan.

St. Paul didn't hate women. The fact that he recognized their role in the community of the faithful - in imitation of Our Lord, who, of course, had many female friends - was downright progressive for his day. We have an unpleasant tendency to read the statements of a saint who live 2,000 years ago in a different and more ancient society through our own glass.

When St. Paul uses familial relationship to explain Christ's relationship to the Church, he is talking as much about love and sacrifice for another then he is about authority. Everyone misses the love and sacrifice part... :-(

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I wrote a very long reply similar to this - and then deleted it because I often use too many words. You have said it in a much better way that I could.

I agree with you totally.

The stars are in the sky at night and we can gaze up at them - and it fills our mind - but we should not think that this makes us astronomers - which takes years of study. So too it is the same with scriptures. Some think that they can pick up scriptures and immediately determine all its meaning - with no need of study or meditation or to refer to others who have studied for years and know something of their meaning. These are the like which say "Paul hated women." and there is not much we can do about their own lack of knowledge or reason. Not much anyone can do because they are - where they want to be (they need to blame someone else for their sadness - any one but themselves - will do). If they can not find someone to blame - that leaves only themselves - and that is un-thinkable!

-ray

Now I'll get personal. I'm a woman, or so I thought. (Actually I was always feminine, cute and highly flirtatious...in my youth that is.) But I always found that I reasoned more like a man. Rarely jealous or threatened, always saw things in a logical fashion, etc.

Well as luck would have it, I recently read that in Germany they found that women are lower in spatial relations. Well I just happened to be stupid in math but very high in spatial relations. I was even able to park cars...in my youth that is.

Let's face it, maybe women are more emotional. less rational, and get carried away with their passions more often then men...And I know I'm going to get blasted for saying that but I was attractive and had many bad experiences without the 'passions' required to fight back.

And what about the other things. Women lose their ability in math around puberty, and they use both sides of their brains, (no doubt speaking out of both sides of our mouth), while men use only one side, (if so it probably gives them a greater sense of concentration).

My gosh, is it any wonder men can't understand us so let's not knock Saint Paul.

Zenovia

I am certain that Paul did not inany regard hate women. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he set out gender defined roles for the church. Each role has equal vital importance in God's sight. Any "organisation" function best when roles are clearly defined for those best suited for them, and that is what Paul did.

In addition, we find women all throughout Pauls epistles. The first convert at Phillipi, for example was the woman Lydia.

Hello Berean,

Do you think Lydia is the best example of one who followed clear, Scripturally laid out gender roles? wg