www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Scripture and Tradition

As an outsider and learner I am curious to what relationship your Church gives to Scripture and Tradtion. Are they equal? Does one have superiority over the other? Is tradition interpreted in the light of Scripture or vice-versa?

As I posted in another I am not hear to fight or cause trouble. I don't think I will be convering , but know nothing about your church and am simply here to learn.

Berean,

Welcome.

Perhaps it would be good if you stated what your Church background is - this would allow us to know where you are coming from, and phrase our answer accordingly.

I'm not Byzantine Catholic, but a member of the Roman Church, but I believe our understanding of Scripture and Tradition is very similar, if not almost identical.

The Catholic Church believes that God revealed Himself to mankind in order to work out our salvation. This began with the patriarchs (Abraham, etc.), and continued through the prophets. The ultimate revelation of God is His Word, Jesus Christ. Jesus handed on this revelation to his apostles, who then preached it to all the ends of the earth, per his command. This is the Gospel message. After the death of the last apostle, public revelation ceased, as it had been fufilled by Christ and his apostle's preaching.

This Gospel message has been handed on through the centuries, and takes on two forms: Scripture and Tradition. Scripture is the written word, inspired by God, and reveals the Gospel message in a unique form. Tradition is the Gospel message handed on in different methods: orally & liturgically primarily. These two forms of handing on the Gospel message are not in conflict, and cannot be pitted one against the other, because they have the same source: the Holy Spirit. The Faith has been handed on for 2,000 years in both forms, both protected by the Holy Spirit.

Now, how do we know what is a correct interpretation of Scripture, and what is legitimate Tradition (as opposed to the traditions of men)? This is the job of the Church, the "the pillar and foundation of the truth" according to 1 Timothy 3:15. The Church is the authority we look to in order to determine what is a legitimate interpretation of Scripture and what is legitimate Tradition.

All three - Scripture, Tradition, and the Church - are the "legs", so to speak, on which our Faith is preached to the nations. Taking away one or more of them will cause it to fall, and be distorted. With all three however, the Faith can remain pure and in its fullness.

I hope this quick explanation is helpful to you. God bless!

I believe that the Eastern approach is that Scripture is the "heart" of Tradition, something central, something that cannot be understood properly outside the lived-out experience of the Church which is Tradition. Another definition of Tradition is "the ongoing life of the Church as she is lead into all Truth by the Holy Spirit." The Lord promised that He would send the Holy Spirit to the Church and that He would be with Her to the end of the age. Tradition is how He does it.

In Christ,

BOB

Berean,

The Eastern Churches do not perceive the relationship of Sacred Scripture and Tradition as the way you have posed the question. Rather, we speak of Holy Tradition as being the activity of the Holy Spirit, present in the Church of Christ since Pentecost, who makes real the eternal Truths of the Gospel and the Love of God the Father to every generation of the faithful. Pride of place is given to Sacred Scripture, originally oral Tradition, whose authors were moved by the inspiration of God to compose the various books. In his Second Letter to the Thessalonians, Saint Paul writes:

So Scripture is viewed as the authentic presentation of Holy Tradition. Other aspects of Holy Tradition are found in the pronouncements of Ecumenical Councils and Creeds (statements of faith), the various liturgical celebrations of our Churches (especially the Divine [Eucharistic] Liturgy), hymnography, iconography, the writings of the Fathers, and preaching. As you can see we perceive Holy Tradition in a "wholistic" manner. Holy Tradition is not dead letter, but the living and loving activity of the Holy Trinity.

Thank you for your clear, concise, non-argumentative,and informative answers. They are very helpful.

Roger,

How did you come across the Eastern Catholics?

Pani Rose

A member of this forum joined a Baptist board that I moderate and piqued my interest. Again, I do not want to be deceptive in any way. I am not here with any interest in coverting as I am fully convinced in my spirit that I am in the right place. I am however, very interested in learning more and am very grateful for the kind reception here.

Roger, our guest and Brother in Christ,

It is also part of the discussion to ask YOU questions just like anyone would when a guest comes to their home. Pani Rose was just being friendly and so are the rest of us which should not be misunderstood as trying to convert you.(I repeat this as you mention that you are not here to be converted in almost all of your replies so far.) Perhaps you are gathering material for a book or a sermon about Byzantine or Orthodox Christians??

This is a discussion forum and posters here, unlike what you may be accustomed to elsewhere, don't try to convert people when they walk in the door.

In the Name of Jesus,


Porter

Porter,

Thank you for your kind words and gentle reminder. I am afraid that I have been so up front about why I am here that I may have caused offense. I do not think anyone here is trying to covert me - I just wanted to make it known that my spirit of inquiry is not motivated by a desire to change, but just to learn more.

My desire to learn is not for a book or sermon at all - I am just curious about a Church which I previuosly knew nothing about.

Please accept my apologies if I came across wrongly.

I have nothing but praise for the way I have been treated.

Roger

Thanks, Brother in Christ. for your apology,

All of us come here for various reasons. But, I must say, change can happen if only that we learn more about other Christians and our own horizons then are broadened.

I do think you are sincerely interested in learning more about Eastern Christianity and this is the place to do that. It might make you a better Christian. I know it has me.

In Christ,


Porter

I find forums the best place to learn. As I mentioned I have learned more in the last couple of days than I would have in months of study.

We often paint those outside of our circle with a broad brush. As an Independent Baptist I know we are often guilty of that. I have already enjoye dmeeting many of you and are convinced of yoru deep love for the things of God.

What is an independent Baptist?

Not that it matters. I try not to inadvertantly step on peoples toes (and sometimes I aim right for the toes!). It would be good for me to know what an independent Baptist is.

You have courage, coming to expereince this melting pot (Orthodox, Byzantines, Roman Catholic, etc.. of sacremental curches). I would have expected some hesitation. But to my memory - I have never known any Baptist to be anything other than sincere people. A credit - to Protestants.

-ray

Independent Baptist basically are not a part of any denomination. Each local church is fully autonomous.

Our website is under contruction (I am a website dummy ), but useable, and has our basic beliefs if you would like to see more.

Dear Berean:


I see. Thank you.

-ray

Roger,

I think that, potentially, you're right. Forums offer a great opportunity to educate and be educated. Unfortunately, many of them are either so internally focused or so aimed at prosletyzing (?sp) (too lazy this a.m. to check - John, can we get a spell checker built into this, please? :p ) that the atmosphere becomes and remains very charged, parochial, and polemic. It's true of both Catholic and Protestant apologetic boards and the fundamentalist Orthodox boards - little there passes for real discussion.

I'm sure everyone appreciates your kind words about your reception here; it's the kind of atmosphere we hope to present - and at which we generally succeed, hopefully. Not to say that we don't have our moments :rolleyes: - it wouldn't take much searching for you to find a fiesty (or worse) exchange or two - the worse include a few of what are not our finest moments. But, for the most part, we succeed in the exercise of respect and charity, toward each other and each other's Churches, the basic precepts behind this board's existence.

As I think someone (Mary Jo and/or Rose) mentioned to you in another thread, we're an extremely diverse group here, bonded by an interest in Eastern Christianity, but certainly not by common Church ties. There are Eastern Catholics here representing more than half of the 22 EC Churches; both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, from probably at least a dozen different Churches; Latins whose thinking spans the continuum from traditional to liberal; and Protestants of a half dozen or more Churches.

And we do see shifts happen; there are among us Orthodox who were recently Catholic, and vice-versa, Catholics who were recently Protestant, etc., all of whose shifts in communion we witnessed, with prayerful hope that each found peace in their choice. And "former" - do we have "former" ; I suspect half of this board's members are former somethings.

Getting off my soapbox, I guess I'm just encouraging you to continue feeling at home here. We always welcome questions, another viewpoint, and someone else to offer a prayer (or ask for one) when life gets a bit disrupted (and we all know that prayers offered in Ireland start out with the advantage that one's already geographically a bit closer to Heaven !) .

Many years,

Neil