www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Impact of the Scriptures

Glad I brought such joy Neil .

Roger,

You did and you've also renewed a curiousity in my mind, which I think I must now set out to satisfy. Among my avocations, I'm a serious student of linguistics, particularly as it relates to regional and local stylisms. In the past, I've been curious as to how and why this particular styling came to be, but have never really pursued it. Now, I think I shall

Many years,

Neil

That is one of those that I really hadn't noticed. Perhaps it has to do with the Irish language. Many peculiarities do.

"I advised you to read the New Testament and to enter into each scene and take part in it, as one more of the characters. The minutes you spend in this way each day enable you to incarnate the Gospel, reflect it in your life and help others to reflect it."

(St. Josemaria, Founder of Opus Dei)


In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear Berean,

Another point you might like about the liturgical cycle of the Scriptures as they are read in the Catholic or Orthodox Churches is that the Old and New Testament readings and the Psalms are usually grouped in order to show how the New Testament has fulfilled the Old. For instance, the Hebrews eating the Manna in the desert will be the Old Testament reading on the day that we have Epistles and Gospels which refer to the taking of the Body of Christ in Holy Communion.

This is only one of many ways these Scriptures are married together to reveal the Wisdom of God throughout the history of salvation. If you have an opportunity to look at a Lectionary, you could see how the readings are arranged to allow this reflection on related ideas all through Scripture.

Does your method of reading relate Old Testament passages to New Testament epistles or gospel readings that correspond to each other on the same day? If not you might like following this type of arrangement if you try it. You could still use the translation of Scripture you prefer.

I believe that this method of grouping Scripture makes the readings so much more meaningful. We see how the Old Testament prefigured the Incarnation of Christ, His Death, and His Resurrection.

May the Lord Bless you richly for your service in Him, Tammy

Brean Holy Scriptues are so important in our daily lives. Praying the Scriptures is a very important part of a Catholic or Orthodox person's way of living their life in Christ. The Holy Spirt has continously led me to pray 1 John 4 as I intercede for people.

When you are home next time take the time to come down to Birmingham and visit St. Georges Melkite Greek Catholic Parrish on Sat. evening. My husband is a deacon there and we can sit up in the balcony(usually no one up there on Sat. night) that way you can observe and ask questions if you like.

The Divine Liturgy contains parts of or references to more than 220 parts of the Holy Scriptures. Most of my protestant friends that go, leave totally amazed at what they have just experienced. It is always a blessing to share the working to the Holy Spirit.

One thing I love about our Church too, is the respect for the Gospel of Christ. As the Gospel is getting ready to be proclaimed (always sung) the people begin gathering around as to be under it when it is proclaimed. Much as they would gather around Christ and hear him teach.

Pani Rose

I really apprecaite the reasoned and practical repsonses to my post. One "hears" so much that it is refreshing to get thoughts straight "from the horse's mouth" (not that I am relating anyone here to Mr Ed ).

Roger

Don't think that one is only an Irishism - it's used here in Glasgow too - and as far as I know my husband's parents never had contact with the Glasgow Irish.

Anhelyna

I am plesed to see a brother alumnus from my seminary (Berean) posting here. in the conversation about Holy Scripture, it is remarkable to me,at least,that so few Christians bother to read the Word. You can even go to a conservative Protestant church and see where people have left their Bibles, and how the Bibles will sit there week after week in the lost and found. what are they reading, begs the question. When I come across a Catholic who reads her/his Bible on a daily basis, it is a wonderful feeling. I read my New American every night, and have been doing so since teenagehood, when I read my three pounder (KJV). so few Catholics read the Bible, and many Protestants seem only to crack it open when in Sunday School, or doing the worship service (I used to wonder if they did that in orfer to catch the preacher in a lie at worst, a mistake at best. I had two years of NT Greek in seminary, and have taught myself the rudiments of Hebrew in order to follow the reading at Mass or at the Protestant church I attend on Sunday mornings (they follow the Lectionary) to hone my skills in the original languages. I'm not asking anyone to do this, there are plenty of English translations,and in fact, the prof I took OT Intro from is the Editor in Chief of the Old Testament part of the New King James. again, plenty of English translations, pick one and read it, and not for proof texts to support any presuppositions you may be entertaining, but for correction, reproof, instruction, and encouragement.
Much Love,
Jonn

Does anyone know of online sources (i.e. free!) which provide (detailed) Scriptural references for the entire liturgy (DIVINE LITURGY of St. John Chrysostom).

Thank you,

Woody

Excellent post - I don't think any denomination has a monopoly on neglecting the Scriptures. It is especially tragic, when those in my circles who claim that they are sola scriptura never find time for personal time in the Bible. If one accepts sola scriptura and neglects the Bible, what is left?

Dear Roger,

What I've always found fascinating is how the reading of the Scriptures in the East is considered, first and foremost, an act of liturgical prayer!

Monastics in the East have the basic rule of reading one chapter of the Gospels daily and two chapters of the Epistle or the rest of the New Testament.

Monks of the Thebaid had to memorize one entire Gospel by heart as part of their formation - usually the Gospel of John.

St Tikhon of Zadonsk promoted the reading of scriptures "unceasingly" much like your Celtic Saints used to do .

Today, one can hear of "prayer quotas" by Eastern monks and bishops who will say that "125 akathists were read, 73 canons and the Gospels were read 27 times" etc.

Alex

Many of the older men in our Church, know how much they have exercised by the number of Psalms they have recited. They can't tell you the number of minutes for anything, but they know how many Psalms they prayed as to whether they exercised enough. So cool!

Woody asked about the specifics of the Scriptural references in the Divine Liturgy. I could not find it online, however, I did come across a pretty good article. http://www.goarch.org/print/en/ourfaith/article7117.asp

Dear Pani Rose,

How fascinating - and historical!

People in the West used to measure distances by the number of rosaries they said as they walked and so they would say that such and such a place was "ten rosaries away" etc.

Special bags were developed that were strung over the shoulder to allow one to hold the beads hidden inside as they slipped them through the fingers.

Alex

Berean,

Thank you for your thoughtful question. I am a convert from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism. So I'm not Eastern, but I hold to the belief that "scriptures are tempered by the teachings of the Church" (although I would word it differently).

Like someone else mentioned, I believe in prima scriptura - that the Scriptures are the prime source of knowledge of Divine Revelation. However, they are not our only source (God is not limited to the written word), and each individual is not given the charism of being able to infallibly interpret the Scriptures correctly. But in no way do I feel that this reduces our appreciation of the Bible; in fact, I have found that since being Catholic, I can more deeply enter into the Word's mysteries and it can speak to me in a more profound way.

In my own experience, I found that when I read the Scriptures as a Protestant, I was my own little island. I would read other people's works and commentaries and study guides, but ultimately, I felt that it was all up to me to make sure I heard from the Lord what He meant in a specific passage. Since usually each passage had multitudes of possible interpretations, I often felt lost! I would get so consumed with trying to figure out the greek (or hebrew) original, and the context, and the setting, etc., that it became a solely academic exercise - not a spiritual one.

However, when I became Catholic, I was able, over time, to abandon myself to the Word. Since I now had strict guidelines for determining what a text meant (note: this is not the same as saying there is just one meaning approved by the Church for each text), I was much more free to explore all the deeper meanings of the text - literal, spiritual, allegorical, and moral.

For example, this morning at daily Mass, the Gospel reading was about Jarius' daughter and the hemoraging woman ( Mark 5:21-43). The priest made a number of points about it, including:

(1) Origen interpreted this allegorically to represent the Jews and the Gentiles. Jarius represents the Jews and the woman represents the Gentiles. First Jarius comes to ask for healing (aka salvatation) from Jesus. But then the woman interrupts Jesus on his way and basically grabs healing (again, salvation) from him. Then finally Jesus does come and grant healing/salvation to Jarius' daughter.

(2) Regarding the line "who touched me?" said by Jesus, and then the disciples basically saying, "what are you talking about, Jesus? Everyone is bumping into you right now" - our priest said that Jesus' response was "people are bumping into me, but only one person touched me". Our priest then asked - when we come to the Eucharist, do we bump into Jesus, or do we touch him like the woman touched him?

(3) The priest also mentioned how the words of Jesus to Jarius' daughter were part of the baptismal liturgy of the early Church, and Mark's readers would have known this. In the baptismal liturgy, the presider would say " Get up (out of the waters) " - and the baptized would be risen from death like Jarius' daughter. The fact that Mark mentions the Aramaic words that Jesus used might reflect on the fact that this exact phrase was used during the Baptismal liturgy as well.

So daily Mass is the main place that I can encounter the Scriptures, and allow them to speak to me. I don't have to worry about every jot and tittle before accepting something - I know that it is part of the worship of the Church. But this does not mean that I don't read the Scriptures on my own - right now I'm reading through the Psalms (using a book called "Christ in the Psalms"), which has been quite edifying.

Basically, I feel that I have the "road map" to the Scriptures now that I'm in the Church that wrote it; whereas before I didn't know which way was north!

I hope I don't come across as antagonistical to the Protestant ways of looking at the Scriptures - I'm just trying to give my own perspective to your question.