www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Luke as iconographer

Dear "Matthew,"

I take it you find it difficult to consider me to be "Orthodox Catholic" in any sense!

That is fine.

I understand that even within Orthodoxy there are those who consider themselves to be "more Orthodox Catholic" than others.

On this score, I'll let God have the final Word!

Happy Old Calendar New Year!

Alex

I don'tthink Luke was an iconogropher. He was a doctor, as well as the author of Acts and his own Gospel. Where did he find the time. I mean, his day off he played golf, right?

Actually, the 300 or so icons attributed to him were from the 5th cent to the 13th cent. He must have been an old man at the time.

Dear Mike,

Well, I also don't think St Luke wrote that many icons . . .

But iconography did appear quite early in Christianity - in a sense, there was a compelling reason for this.

The Apostles and other missionaries preached an Incarnate God, something that truly did get the attention of many.

Primitive icons and pictures of Christ were often used to show what He looked like and what He did etc.

The Ethiopian missionary tradition, that goes way back when, maintains what it believes to be the Apostolic "equipment" used by travelling preachers of the Word of God - staffs, hand-crosses and. . . primitive icons of Christ and/or the Mother of God.

Even anti-Christian grafitti on the walls of Rome show that the pagans of the time were acquainted with early iconic representations of Christ and the Cross.

One such example of anti-Christian grafitti, that dates to the second century according to archaeologists, even shows a slanted foot-rest on the Cross the picture is trying to defame - much like what we now see in Orthodox iconography of the Cross!

St Luke was a true cosmopolitan of his age.

Physicians in North America tend to be expert "human plumbers." ("Doctor" is Latin for "teacher" and physicians appropriated this term for themselves much later - it was formerly the preserve of philosophers and those teaching the classics).

But the physicians of that time period had a very well-rounded and wide education that went well beyond the physical sciences of the day.

Physicians were especially adept at drawing since this is how they trained and studied the "architecture" of the human body.

Only St Luke himself would have had any training in art as a result - he would have been well qualified to write icons.

In addition, since he was not a Jew, he had no sensitivity about depicting Christ and religious subjects in art. Drawing images of pagan gods and the like for votive purposes was a pagan preoccupation, after all.

The view that he wrote icons by way of the words of the Gospel named for him doesn't really hold water - he was, after all, writing down not his perspective - but that of St Paul whose assistant Luke was. (Just as St Mark wrote down the words of St Peter in the Gospel named for him).

Alex

Dear Alex,

Sounds like St. Luke was a real "Renaissance Man" like Leonardo daVinci!

Seriously, though, I read on someone's eBay auction selling an Our Lady of Perpetual Help icon some story about how St. Luke wrote it and Mary saw it and blessed it. Funny, since the Our Lady of Perpetual Help icon is said to hail from, I believe, somewhere around the 13th century! Perhaps St. Luke wrote the prototype that was used as a model for Our Lady of Perpetual Help.

Speaking of Our Lady of Perpetual Help... Mr. Esoteric One , I have a question you might be able to answer. In our Byzantine Book of Prayer, there is a prayer to the Mother of Perpetual Help. One line in the prayer is "You have chosen for yourself the name, Mother of Perpetual Help." I have often wondered what the story is behind that. Do you know?

Tammy

Dear "Orthodox Catholic",

Well as the son of an "Orthodox Catholic" Priest (ACROD) old calendar then new calendar and having a best friend who is new calendar under the Great Church of Christ, the Ecumenical Patriarch and having many Roman Catholic friends I think that perhaps you've misperceived my words.

And yes, within "Orthodoxy" there are those who do consider themselves to be "more Orthodox Catholic" than others. I don't look at it that way, and to those that do, well I find it necessary to exercise some patience, although it is often easier said than done. I have witnessed several complete turn arounds that have been quite fruitful and pleasing to many. It seems that even within the Roman Catholic ranks there are "those" that consider themselves to be more Roman Catholic than others. Certainly it seems that some Byzantine Catholics have experienced some degree of an uncharitable attitude by their Roman Catholic rite adherent brethren as I've heard anyway.

And on that score, I trust in God's great mercy and love for mankind, including you!

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Dear Alex,

I'm a little off-topic here, but...

Do you have a name or history for that beautiful icon you use as your avatar image?

Tammy

Dear Matthew,

Believe me, there is NOTHING good in me - my salvation, if it will be achieved, will come about ONLY by the Mercy and Grace of God!

Alex

Dear Tammy,

"Our Lady of Perpetual Help" is the title of the Eastern icon of "the Mother of God of the Passion."

Veneration of this icon in the West begins in 1495 (documented veneration that is).

The merchant who had this copy doubtless stole it from an Eastern shrine.

The icon is actually much older and could very well have been written by St Luke - to be augmented over time.

The three bar Cross depicted in it on our right is NOT an indication that the icon is of later origin. Again, there is anti-Christian grafitti on the walls of Rome with three-bar Crosses. In fact, the foot-rest is more prominent on earliest Crosses (when crucifixion was more than a blurred memory).

The icon relates to an old Eastern story about how the Archangels approached the Christ-Child with the intruments of His future Passion. Jesus immediately ran to His Mother and He ran so quickly that one of His shoes came off - as shown on the icon. He grasps His Mother's hand with both of His.

But His Mother's eyes do not rest on Her Son, nor do they rest on us, who view the icon.

In fact, the Most Holy Mother ponders all these things in Her heart . . .

Also, the icon I have is our parish's patronal icon of Our Lady of Zhirovits in Belarus.

The original is a small icon written on a rock that was found in a pear-tree before the time of St Josaphat.

The lord of the manor, Alexander Soltan, put this icon in his home-chapel, but it reappeared again on the pear-tree. He then decided to build a chapel on the site of the pear-tree for the icon.

The icon was in the hands of the Basilian Fathers for a time and is considered by them to be their Order's patronal icon - it is now back in Orthodox hands.

My parish has an outdoor shrine with this icon and has a large one written behind the altar inside.

Ours is an annual indulgenced pilgrimage to this icon and I've introduced the now accepted tradition of distributing blessed pears to the people on the day of the icon's feast!

Alex

Dear Alex,

Thank you for the history lesson on the Our Lady of Perpetual Help icon! I had not heard that story about the Christ Child losing His shoe... I did hear a story that Mary saw Luke painting the icon and told him that she would help whomever pleaded for her intercession before this icon...

We usually attend a Roman Rite parish named for Our Lady of Perpetual Help. It's the closest thing to an Eastern Rite parish we can find - the wall behind the altar is painted with an icon of her, although it looks slightly more western (you know, realistic) than the traditional copy you see of that icon. She always seems to smile at us. Not quite Our Lady of the Sign, but as close as you'll get in a Roman Catholic parish!

Our Lady of Zhirovits is quite beautiful! Thank you for the history on that one, too.

Tammy

Dear Tammy,

Can't we celebrate your Namesday on St Tamara's Day?

Please, pretty please . . .!

Actually, the Mother of God appeared to the Apostles at supper after her Assumption into Heaven.

She told them that she would unfailingly help all who invoked her in necessity with the words: Most Holy Mother of God, come to our assistance! or Most Holy Theotokos, Save us!

This is why the Apostles and now Eastern monastics leave an empty place at their supper tables for her . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

According to all the baby naming books, "Tamara" comes from the Hebrew meaning "palm tree". "Tammy", on the other hand, means "perfection." I always teased my college roommate, Tamara, that I was perfect, and she was just a palm tree!

Now I find out there is a St. Tamara, but no St. Tammy. :rolleyes: That's humbling.

So if you want to bestow such an honor on me as to celebrate my Namesday on her feastday, how can I say no? I'll have to find the thread where I posted the info on St. Tamara so I know when her feastday is!

By the way, I said a prayer to her last night... or was it the night before... asking her intercession for me.

Tammy

Dear Tammy,

St Tamara, Queen of Georgia, 1184-1211, daughter of King George III. She freed her nation from the Muslim Yoke and promoted science, poetry and religion. Her tomb at the city of Vardzia is a famous shrine. Feast day: May 1st.

There is also a Saint Tamjesdegerd, a Martyr of Persia who was crucified, head down on Sept. 25 in 447 AD.

Also a St. Tammarus, A bishop who came to Campania in Italy during the Vandal persecution in Africa. His relics are in the cathedral of Benevento. FD. October 15.

The problem with using just "Tammy" is that someone might mistake your full name as "Tamjesdegerd."

Now, would you want THAT to happen?

Alex

Dear Alex,

Actually, my full first name IS "Tammy". I hated that when I hit about the sixth grade - "It's a baby name!"

But St. Tamara's feastday is actually only a week and a half after my birthday, so that makes her doubly appropriate for my patron! What were my Baptist parents thinking?

Tammy

Dear Tammy,

Well, the Eastern Church practice is for one's Namesake patronal feast to fall within the first forty days after birth for boys and within the first eighty days for girls!

In Russia, they would cut a board the length of the baby at birth and write the icon of the baby's patron saint on it - "taking the full measure."

Peter the Great's "baby icon" is on display in the Tretyakov Gallery.

Alex

Dear Alex,

My second son is named Andrew Thomas, and he was baptized on the feast of St. Thomas, at St. Thomas the Apostle Church! So we decided to make St. Thomas his patron instead of St. Andrew.

My third son is Jason Quinn. When we were deciding on a name for him, we liked "Jason Quinn" because "Jason" means "healer" and "Quinn" means "wise one". So his name means "wise healer". Then we saw that St. Jason's feast day was only a week after his due date. That settled the issue! (He ended up being born only two days before St. Jason's feast day.)

My first son is Sean Michael. "Sean" is Gaelic for "John" and his patron saint is St. John the Theologian. But I think his feast day is in the summer time, so I guess we missed the 40-day mark on that one!

Tammy