www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Vulgate Bible

Is the Vulgate of St. Jerome accepted in the Eastern Orthodox (or Byzantine Catholic) Church? What about the Clementine Vulgate? What about the Nova Vulgata issued by Rome after Vatican II?

Andrew

We neither reject nor use it - the Bible used by most of the Christian East is the Septuagint Old Testament and the Greek New Testament.

The exception is provided by communities who either speak Syro-Aramaic (rare, but there are a few left) or who use Syro-Aramaic for liturgical purposes. These often rely on the ancient Peshitta version of some of the Scriptures. There is at least one translation of the Peshitta into English.

Father Serge

Andrew:

Glory be to Jesus Christ!! Glory be to Him forever and ever!!!

It seems to me that a quick answer to you would be the question, "Why would they?"

The Greek and Slavic Churches used Scripture versions that were vernacular to them: written in Koine Greek and Slavonic. The other Churches outside these used, as Father Serge points out, vernacular versions native to them.

St. Jerome translated what has become known as the Vulgate to achieve the same purpose: to provide a vernacular version for people who did not speak Greek. Latin was not a language known in the eastern portion of the world of that time. So why would the Eastern Churches use the Vulgate?

In Christ,

BOB

I'm assuming that was a rhetorical question in your reply. In any case, it answers my question, and I appreciate it. For those of us who are not familiar with the LXX (Septuigint) or the Greek or Peshitta languages, do most American, at least, Byzantine Catholic Churches have an English translation that they like to use? And where would I get a copy, if so? I think the Eastern Canon has 2 or 3 more books of Esdras, which the West does not use, do they not?

Andrew

The only reasonably complete English translation of the Septuagint currently on the market is that of Brenton - it's about 150 years old, so you may imagine that it presents some linguistic problems. A group centered around Oxford University is doing a new translation, but unfortunately they plan to use the New Revised Standard Version for their base text. Another group is doing an English translation of the LXX specifically for Orthodox use - and, unfortunately, they are using the New King James Version for their base text.

A good place to start is the Psalter - I recommend the English translation of the LXX Psalter published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston; it can be obtained from most Orthodox outlets.

Fr. Serge

The Douay-Rheims Bible was a translation of the Latin Vulgate. Much of the Old Testament is from the Septuagint version. It also includes the "Deuterocanonical" book that Protestant Bibles now exclude.

Our modern translations, including the New American Bible (used in the U.S. Ruthenian texts), are not based at all on the Septuagint.

At least the Douay presented the Septuagint.

Most Orthodox in the U.S. use the protestant King James Bible which is not based on the Septuagint nor does is usually have the Deuterocanonical texts.

Bottom line, we need our own English edition of the Bible, including the texts which Byzantine Christians customarily include. Just don't let any of our "translators" of the Liturgy be part of th project or we might get something like this: "For God so loved the world that God gave God's only Child, so that everyone who believes in that Child may not perish but may have eternal life." Jn 3:16. Don't laugh - the verse quoted is from the AIV (An Inclusive Version) Bible.

Dear Lazareno,

Actually this statement is inaccurate. The majority of the Orthodox in the English speaking world do not use the King James Bible. The preferred translations into English of the Holy Scripture is the Revised Standard Version of the Bible with the Apocrypha, such as published by Oxford University Press, and in the case of Orthodox Study Bible that will be released next year, they are using The New King James Text with Apocrypha. The above Revised Standard Version of the Bible is what is used by the majority for lectionary texts at present. There are some Orthodox jurisdictions that prefer the King James texts, i.e. ROCOR, but the majority have long ago based most Gospel and Epistle Books of the RSV texts. If you care to check the books for sale currently from the Antiochian Archdiocese and Holy Cross Press, they will confirm this. I believe this is also true for books released by Saint Tikhon Seminary Press.

The full Orthodox Study Bible that is being released will also be based on the Septuagint for the Old Testament. This is also can be confirmed by the releases that are on the OSB site.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I have the NRSV with Apocrypha, and it has the "extra" Esdras books in it. I think that's as close as I'm going to come to an "Orthodox" Bible for now. By the way, the Esdras books are utterly fascinating reading! Do the Orthodox or Byzantine Catholics get any particular doctrine from them?

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

You have to be careful about the NRSV as opposed to the RSV. Apparently the use of inclusive language has actually made the use of the NRSV undesirable from the Orthodox perspective. I know that there are Orthodox jurisdictions, i.e. OCA, Greek Archdiocese, Antiochian Archdiocese that prohibit the use of the NRSV for use in the lectionary because of the use of the language.

I hope that this is helpful in answering your questions.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Yes, I read an essay to that effect (that the NRSV had some problematic wording in it), on some Orthodox site, but I cannot seem to find it now. I'm more interested in substance generally, rather than form, at this point. That is to say, I wouldn't understand the nuances that bothered the writer of the essay at this point in my education in Orthodoxy, and may not for a long time. But I am aware of what you are referring to. Thanks.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Actually it was not the opinion of one author, but rather encyclicals by several jurisdictions and hierarchs that issued the prohibition of the use of NRSV texts for liturgical purposes. I believe I know of the essay you are referring to, but the site also escapes my recollection right now. The reason why the prohibition was placed is that the language countered what was seen as a sound theological translation. For personal use it is whatever one may want, but for church use that is another story.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

For more information on the deficiencies of the NSRV (New Revised Standard Version) from a Catholic point of view: Check out this link:
http://www.ad2000.com.au/articles/1995/jun1995p11_859.html

Now I understand. Another "acommodandum" to our modern foolishness! Thanks!

"ad Missale Romanum novis huius temporis animi sensibus accomodandum" --- Pope Paul VI on the Novus Ordo.

Andrew

The RSV is to be preferred over the NRSV as several posts have mentioned. Although the RSV OT is not directly translated from the Septuagint, the editions with the Apocrypha have all of the books held sacred by Eatern Orthodox Churches, including 3rd and 4th Macabees, Psalm 151, all of the books of Esdras. The RSV does often follow septuagint readings rather than the Masoretic (e.g., Psalm 85:8)

Here are some links to buy one:

First, a leather-flex RSV with Apocrypha:
http://www.amazon.com/Revised-Stand...63786573/ref=sr_11_1/104-4216871-6523905

Secondly, the RSV New Oxford Study Bible
http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Apo.../104-4216871-6523905?ie=UTF8&s=books

Finally, although it only has the seven deutero-canonical books in the Roman Catholic Canon, I recommend the Ignatius Bible RSV:

First edition
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Re...m_lm_fullview_prod_1/104-4216871-6523905

Second Edition
http://www.amazon.com/Ignatius-Bibl.../104-4216871-6523905?ie=UTF8&s=books