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Do the Apocryphal Writings address the sovereignty of God or does it address man as free will agent deciding their own fate?
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By Apocryphal are you referring to the real Apocryphal texts or the DeuteroCanonical books?
As for making a mass generalisation of all of the texts - one cannot, some Apocryphal writings are simple legend, others give the reader a gnostic spin, and others give historical information.
The DeuteroCanonicals are divinely inspired writings, if you wish to discuss them - select one and we will go from there.
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I do mean let's discuss the Deutercanonical (Esdras etc).
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Do you mean to also include the book of Esther which doesn't mention God at all?
CDL
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Originally posted by Joel on the "Evangelical Free Church of America" blog: Greg, I appreciated your comments and candid insight. Revisions and changes should always be performed but with a delicate hand. Placing article one to article two is no longer giving emphasis to the doctrine of the word as being the pillar and ground of truth. We know God by the Bible. I understand that various philosophical approaches can be used: Ontological, teleological, cosmological, etc to argue God's existence. The practicality of Sys. Theo has provided this understanding of God. But in the end, the church must always go back to the Bible to defend our understanding of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Also, as a way of recommedation. I think we should add 66 books denoting what we actually believe. Since, many Protestant denominations are denying inerrancy, what books do we believe to be true. As well, as the current trend to push the Book of Judas and other deutercanonical writings. Praying for you Greg. posted by Joel Badal on April 20, 2006 07:37 AM http://blogs.efca.org/sof/2006/02/dialogue/In comparing your post opening this thread and the quotation above, it seems you use Apocryphal and DeuteroCanonicall interchangeably. This is not proper as there are distinct differences between the two. Comparing the Sacred DeuteroCanonical works of the Holy Bible to the Apocryphal Gnostic �Gospel of Judas� is most improper. I am unsure if you are simply unaware of the differences or are being disingenuous (although, considering your background and education, I suspect the later). Please clarify your position on this matter and then perhaps the discussion can proceed. ~Isaac
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Joel,
So, are you in favor of the Book of Judas or not? We certainly are not.
Do you wish to discuss Esdras or not? If so I'm ready. What questions do you have?
CDL
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No I am not in favor of the Gospel of Judas. It considered a false book.
I would see the Apocryphal and Deutercanonical as essentially the same. These books were added books to the canon at the Council of Trent.
I know I am going hear about this.
Protestant Evangelicalism only accepts the 66 books were ratified by the church councils. Also you need to look at the Jewish authorities concerning the OT
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Are you aware of the fact that Christians decided the Canon BEFORE the Palestinian Jewish Council of Jamnia (which only applied to Palestinian Jews, and not worldwide Judaism - e.g. Ethiopian, Hellenic Jews have the same Canon as the Septuagint)?
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I'm afraid you are historically incorrect. So since you reject part of the Scriptures we probably have little to discuss with you. If on the other hand you wish to discuss the sovereignty of God in the Deuterocanonicals we are ready.
So far your contributions have been very disappointing. You've accused me of something or other but do not explain what. You link some Gnostic text with canonical writings. You offer to discuss the sovereignty of God in the Deuterocanonicals but then switch topics. When are you going to get to some topic?
CDL
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Naturally, the topic for discussion is the sovereignty of God in the Deutercanonical or Aprocryphal writings.
Ready for the open discussion.
Joel
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In which DeuteroCanonical book do you find God to be subordinate?
Please leave the gnostic texts out of this discussion as all Christians agree they are not part of any Canon.
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Pastor Joel:
I think you might be well served by reading another thread on this part of the forum concerning St. Athanasius and his rendering of the canonical books. The books considered canonical were decided far earlier than the Council of Trent. Trent merely confirmed what had already been decided centuries before.
In Christ,
BOB
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Pastor Joel,
The Councils of Hippo (A.D. 393) and Carthage (A.D. 397) set the canon of Scripture that remained in force until the Reformation when Luther decided to use the Jerusalem canon.
The Hellenistic Jews used the Septuagint as their basic canon of Scripture.
Your claim that the Deuterocanonical books were "added at the Council of Trent" is in error. Trent simply confirmed the books already defined. Why? Because Luther and his companions were removing books from Scripture! It was, therefore, necessary to state again what is a part of the divinely inspired text of the Bible.
Fr. Deacon Edward
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Originally posted by Joel Badal:
Naturally, the topic for discussion is the sovereignty of God in the Deutercanonical or Aprocryphal writings.
Ready for the open discussion.
Joel Go right agead, We await your observations and questions. This is a bright and alert group. We are all eager to read what you have. BTW I have a cousin who with his family lived in Ecuador most of his adult life. He was a Wycliffe translator. So I'm familiar with the kind of work you do. CDL
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