www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization ByzanTEEN so what' the deal...

what's the deal with pews?

unfortunately the protestant/western pews have been in our churches so long that people would rather give up their iconostasis than their seat. I am very troubled because pews do not allow us to worship God the way our traditions prescribe. We can no longer make poklons without awkward shuffling out into the aisle and even then not everyone can be accomadated. I cannot even begin to comprehend how churches are able to conduct services properly. We choose to choke ourselves and in return some sunday morning comfort.

"ohh, the mass is sooo long"
"ohh, that's simply inhuman"

are some of the arguments you might come by.
Well, the Divine Liturgy is butchered in so many churches that it takes less than 1 hour. Now how long would you stand at a ticket booth to get free tickets to U2, Britney Spears, or Patriarch Alexei?

As for inhuman, how about boxing your children in a to a sound proof booth. Children should be allowed to experience the liturgy close up, see the icons, the vestments , the insence, the movement.
I could go on but I don't feel like it anymore.
Well it's all up to you now.

my church has no pews, DOES YOURS?

Ilya (Orthodoxy Rocks!)

Dear Ilya,

I am fortunate to attend a Syrian Orthodox church here in New York (the boogie down Bronx, baby! ) that was built from scratch, and so we were able to build it like an Indian church...without pews. Having experience with pews and no pews, I'd say that pews are definitely good for Roman churches, but for our Eastern Liturgies, no pews are ideal...I've seen SO churches with and without pews...I like no pews in our churches, myself.

Dear ilya goes to church:

Dam the Pews.

If I get you tickets to see the Patriarch of Moscow, can you get me tickets to see Britney Spears?

Woodworker indeed.


Sincerely
defreitas

Nice, defreitas, really nice...

+JMJ+

Pews are not ideal for Roman Parishes. Their are an import form the heresies of the Anababtist movement. Think about it, should we be sitting in the presence of the King of Kings? Kneeling should be continued, but kneeling is a penititential reverential practice. WE should knell ont he plain floor (whcih should also not be carpeted, it messes up the accoustics). When in attendence at Mass, I will often stand in the back and genuflect at the appropriate times and kneel at the appropriate times. This practice certainly adds to the beuty of the Mass.

My suggestion is to take the pews, put a few against the walls for those who cannot stand for the entire Mass, and sell the rest to Protestants. Use the money from this sale to work for the conversion of Protestants. Once all Protestants have converted, lets take the pews and use them for firewood.

Joe Zollars

LOL at Joe's post! Not only are pews unOrthodox, but so are organs. Our church was originally owned by Lutherans, and unfortunately, the pews and the organ are still in place. In recent months, our parish has been having a "traditionalist revival," and instead of hearing that screeching instrument of heresy, the liturgy is chanted as it should be and always has been! I was told the pews are soon to come out as well.

+AMDG+

It is the opposite here. We had the town parishes (we had three) all get into the charismatic renewal and start having tamborines and hooping and hollering at the Mass and now thanks to the "spirit of unity" we are down to one not so big parish instead of three burgening parishes.

Beleive it or not we actually sold one of the churches to the lutherans who have maintained several of the stuff that was there when it was Charismatic Catholic.

Protest pews. I just came up with a new use for the pews. Let's use them for the back of Icons.

As for chanted Masses, that is how it should be in the west as well. No instruments should be used. Our Priests, Deacons, and choirs should be taught the great beuty and reverence of Gregorian Chant. GC is the only form of music officially approved by Vatican II for use in the Latin Rite.

Ok Joe, climb down off the soapbox.

Joe

Joe,

How ironic, because St. Melany's down here in Tucson was formerly a Protestant church that was bought. It works out really well: a large social hall, a smaller side chapel (used for confessions and daily Divine Liturgy)in addition to sizable sanctuary; also the tower provides like 3 floors for religious ed.

Top 10 uses for pews currently in BC parishes:

10. Makes great firewood!
9. Backs for icons (already suggested)
8. Sell 'em and use the funds for evangelization (already suggested)
7. Bonfire
6. Long-lasting fuel for youth retreat campfires. I can already taste the smores!!!
5. Source of wood for iconostas
4. Source of wood for mulch
3. Source of wood for the parish termite colony
2. You know, if we took all these pews, we'd probably have enough wood to build a life-size replica of the Empire State Building out of toothpicks.
1. Everybody's favorite: BINGO!!!

Yours in the Theotokos,

Darrenn

I do think that the Organ has a place in the Roman Rites, however much its inappropiate for Byzantines. Byrd, Bach, Buxtehude-you can't get much better than that!

MK

Death to pews!
As smoke vanishes, so let them vanish!

Daniil

We donated our pews to a nice Protestant church that lost theirs in a flood. They were very happy. Good witness.

Now we have chairs on Sunday, but on Weekdays and during Lent we can scrap the chairs for prostrations.

anastasios

Dear Friends:

I have heard rumor that the rector of the Anglican Cathedral of St. James in Toronto wishes to remove the pews and replace them with chairs.

I wonder if he can convince them to do poklons as well.

Granted, its a little far fetched, but what does he have to loose a congregation?


I know, I know.

Sincerely
defreitas

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: defreitas ]

Dear Friends,

St Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic Church in Toronto originally had pews and still does.

But when Fr. Lypsky had a lecture on the evils of pews, the teenagers in the crowd were so inspired that, following class, they brought hammers and screwdrivers to begin the process of "de-pewing" the Church . . .

Father could barely convince them to stop.

The reason why I think the pews remained is because the floor leans forward, like the leaning tower of Pisa, and without the pews, standing is very awkward.

Then again, one could adopt Ethiopian prayer sticks . . .

Alex

Yes, the slanting floor would be awkward, but it would make prostrations easier because you'd always be falling forward.

Bring out the tool box! Let's get to work!

Daniil

Dear Daniil,

As always, you've really "nailed" that one on the head . . .

I also think there is an "art" to standing that we need to be made more aware of.

Things like putting our feet "flat" on the floor, standing in a relaxed posture, wearing more loosely fitting clothing like an embroidered shirt and belt, and returning to the practice of making many Signs of the Cross, prostrations etc. that help get the blood flowing freely etc.

(I daresay that if your parish does any more "returning" to our ancient practices, we'll all be in trouble . . .).

Alex