www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization ByzanTEEN Where are the Byzan-Teens?

As parents who have raised three children in the Byzantine Church, Ruthenian by baptism and Melkite because of location(although they were babies when we came here), we have experienced both. Our children have also been brought up in the charismatic renewal. Their faith is strong. We were blessed in that they had teachers who were steadfast in their beliefs and the youth advisors were serious as to how they should behave and represent themselves in Church and out. They practice the domestic church, and know who they are as a BC. They are also not afraid to speak out for Jesus and their Church. You see we are in the Bible Belt, and only 2% Catholic and Orthodox. The bottom line is they know who they are in Jesus Christ. It doesn't mean they haven't wanted to quit or not go to Church like all kids, myself included when I was a kid, but they have persevered.

Our oldest one is 26. He did have some problems when he hit seventh grade. It wasn't because he didn't have stong teaching, but because it was from too many directions. We had been in Birmingham for two years. He was attending a RC school run by the Dominicans, excellent teachers, but things became jumbled one day. He came home and said, "Tell me what I believe. (I remember those words so clearly) He said we are Ruthenians, in a Melkite Church, I'm going to a RC school, the sisters are very Marian (they would get on him about crossing himself wrong-such a battle), and we are charismatics. Explain this all to me." It took a few weeks to get things back in focus, but he did OK. He says he is glad now, because his faith is stronger. That he knows and understands things he would not have if he had not gone through it. However, we did have to take him out of the RC High School, he couldn't handle all the heresy. We never dreamed it would be so bad.

Why, his theology teacher actually said one day, (and William was never one to be quiet)God was a woman because Scripture said he was multibreasted.
William stood up in class and told her he was multibreasted, and he sure wasn't a woman. So neither was God. He was a 10th grader then, and she was an ex-nun.

When my daughter, who is 19, finished Sunday School last year, she was so excited. "Now I can sleep in some on Sunday mornings." Well, they needed some assistants in ECCD this year, and though she wasn't real excited about it at first, she and another 19 year old that lives with us, started helping. Now they love it. They always have a story to tell. For me, when the moms come by or people comment on how they work with the kids and in the church, I get excited. I know the Holy Spirit did his thing.

The bottom line in the Church here is stength. St. Georges is blessed that the children don't leave, or if they do they come back. But the community has asways surrounded them with the Church.

Father, we are from St. Joseph's in Tonronto originally. Archpriest Micheal Moran brought us into the renewal, and of course Steubenville played a big part in our lives. Students from the univesity do go to Liturgy at St. Josephs. Often they are RC who are seeking a deeper worship, and find it there.

When Br. Andreas became ill, they eventually closed the Melkite Monastery in Steubenville. It was located downtown close to St. Stanaslaus. I don't know if someone else took it over or if it is still used as a home for children or not.

Rose

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Rose ]

Sup fellas...

I personally think the 'Charismatic Renewal' is a load of bunk. I find it rather difficult to believe that freaks who are 'slain in the spirit' are actually experiencing authentic chrisms of the holy spirit.

Just my thoughts, take it or leave it.

Dr. Bob

Hi again,

Just some more thoughts. During what I call my "sojurn" in the RCC (the three-year period of heavy involvement in a local RC parish and Life Teen, during which I wanted, but couldn't enter the Catholic Church because my mom insisted that I wait until I was 18) I was very much embedded in the Life Teen "Jesus-du-jour": a puree of the New Apologetics/Charismatic Renewal/and the Life Teen retreats and Life Teen/Steubenville conferences (one of which has been held down here at the University of Arizona for the past 3 years). During my sojurn, I came to greatly admire the passion for truth, the devotion to Scripture and Mary, and the willingness to serve that I saw among many of my buds. That setting really influenced my decision (about a year before my 18th B-day) to become Byzantine Catholic. The lack of authentic discernment as exemplified by the confusion between an emotional warm fuzzy high on a retreat or Teen Mass, and the authentic, long-lasting impact of a true encounter with God. I firmly believe that the Charismatic movement is really part of a spiritual identity crisis in the RCC: but instead of looking to take "mass spirituality" (if I may coin such term) to the next level, it became more concerned with the next big thing...in short, a breeding ground for a generation of Catholics with a two-second attention span.

Gradually as I "re-oriented" (love that phrase) it just gradually became more and more unbearable to be labeled by my LT companions as simply more "Traditional" simply because I now had the broader perspective to see most of their Charismatic eccentricities in the context of the post-schism RCC, forced to breathe with one lung for so long. They simply had too limited a vocabulary to understand me, so they tried shoehorn me into their own (quite partisan) pre-conceived world. And, to tell y'all the truth, it still breaks my heart to see the outright backflips that the RCC (in America) will do in the name of "ecumenism" to court the Evangelicals and other Protestants while the Sister Church of Constantinople is largely ignored. It breaks my heart to see them ditch Constantinople for Geneva and the Baptists (not that anybody should ditch them). My experiences with Life Teen, charismatic masses, and yes, even Eucharistic Adoration <duck> whetted my apettite for the lighting of a mystical fire within me. It was there that I learned first about standing and kneeling before God in prayer and not caring, and it was there that I learned the orans position, and there that I experience the reality of the role of ascetic witness in the Church. As far as Catholic-Orthodox relations in the U.S. goes, it's not Johnstown or any of the other scandals and tragedies of the past that has me worried, it is the continued indifference by the average U.S. Catholic and the charismatic movement doesn't seem to be helping.

Lastly, what the controversies surrounding the charismatic movement, I think, is the whole issue of internal authority: how the people of God, collectively discern something (a devotion, a teaching, or a movement) to be of God. Of course, this all very much old territory in Orthodoxy, but relatively unexplored in the RCC (on a practical level, though it is discussed in the new Catechism), hence all the AmChurch troubles. In the Vatican II confusion, it seems that the RCC is in the midst of epistemelogical chaos: Ethos Inflation--the circulation of too much cheap credibility. Can't instinctively trust the neo-cons: not with their salvos against the East (see the recent Adoremus thread). Can't just listen to everybody with a scapular around their neck: could very well be one of those problematic charismatics. And of course, can't trust just any Traditionalist either: not everything that is old is good, plus I can't stand for much of their bashing of the RCC (despite its many problems).

What does this actually have to do with ByzanTEENS? To put it simply, without the living, breathing monastic ideal (as lived in monasteries, and as exemplified in ordinary folk living ordinary lives of ascesis), the young people of the BCC simply won't buy into a "ByzanTEEN" identity that's too shallow. What do I mean in practical terms? How about pro-Orthodox youth coordinators, teens willing to reach out to other teens, godly Eastern Catholic priests and hierarchs and ditching the Byzantine inferiority complex. When the RCC and the Orthodox Church see us acting as an Eastern Catholic Church, they'll treat us as such. Quite frankly, I'd like to see a Byzantine Catholic press that holds the like of both the Adoremus Bulletin and National Catholic Reporter accountable. No teen is going to want to belong to a Church with an identity crisis. Let's hold rallies and retreats with Ruthenians AND Ukrainians AND Melkites AND Orthodox---TOGETHER! Oh Vey!! I look forward to the day when all of Constantinople's scattered children greet each other with "S'nami Boh!" in recognition that God will never leave the Byzantine Catholic Church.

Yours in the Theotokos,

Darrenn

Many thanks, Darrenn! Well put.

Your sojourn reminds me of myself at that age. Thanks to exposure to Anglicanism I discovered high-church liturgics (real Catholic liturgics), yet a "Search' weekend, full of "fellowship' with teens in a slightly artificial, not-like-real-high-school environment, was a therapeutic breakthrough for me socially and emotionally, for the first time treating what I now think is probably Asperger syndrome or a similar learning disability, undiagnosed and untreated all through childhood and adolescence. I discovered an intense version of "community' (even though it was temporary), a big insight into what the Church is about, yet I still longed to express that in the language of the Church's traditional liturgics. It sounds like with your discovery of a Byzantine Catholic church you have found a way to reconcile all that, discerning and when necessary discarding the things that are not orthodox or are spiritually immature. Good for you!

http://oldworldrus.com

I am so thankful for the strong Orthodox teachings our children have had. As I see them bringing other teenagers into the Eastern Church, right now there are three, I know the graces that they received in the Sacraments of Initiation are alive and busy. But I also, know the zeal they have for evangelization is from their years of living a very active life in the Holy Spirit.

The children in our Church don't leave, but it is because of family. St. Georges is Melkite, and half of the Church is from Ramullah, they are very close. Their parents have given them far more than most kids can imagine. Though the parents are strong in their faith, the children are lacking. Though they know what to do, it is all to often ritual. I can say this because of their disrespect that I see when our priest is talking at youth group, or their disrespect toward their leaders.

I am not saying that our kids are any better, it is a noticlble difference observed by many adults in the church, that have mentioned it. Our children have been brought up with them, although we are Ruthenian. The difference that I see is the action of the Holy Spirit in their lives. There is a spirituality that we see that didn't come from us, it is the burning fire of Jesus inside them. The same burning fire that Jesus desires for all of us. Praise God!

Rose

At the beginning of this thread, Anthony Dragani notes the silence in this youth forum and says it's symptomatic of the current situation in your Church. This leads me to ask a simple question, since I don't know the situation in your parishes.

Do parish bulletins make note of the website and the Byzantine Forum, noting especially that there is a board for young people as well? Do youth groups, pastors, other members of the parish, etc. do this, if the bulletin does not? How effectively publicised is this wonderful site?

Yesterday evening, our friend akemner instant messaged me via AOL Instant Messenger. This same kind of thing can be done via AOL too. This means essentially that anyone with such with either AOL or AIM can talk in real time to anyone else here. Granted everyone has their own friends and such, and that the most I've ever done with regard to my friends here was to email them, it was nice to talk to him in real time, really nice. Especially since he and I are close in age...as he was quick to note to me, it is good to be able to talk to similar people our age, which (at least in my personal case) are few and far between.

Perhaps the site needs to be promoted in churches and youth groups? Perhaps they need to know that not only can they leave messages and questions here, but make friends with this particular interest, and talk to them on a regular basis via some sort of messaging software? They can ask questions of one another, learn from the others, inform people of their projects and such, collaborate, work together, all that good stuff.

Seeing as we're already a sort of internet parish like Dr. John is fond of saying, perhaps we need to promote this particular board as a sort of internet youth group, which for the moment is sadly without many people in it.

Just some thoughts from a simple Syrian on a frigid Albany morning...27 degrees Fahrenheit...that's -3 degrees to you, Alex! :p

Yesterday evening, our friend akemner instant messaged me via AOL Instant Messenger. This same kind of thing can be done via AOL too. This means essentially that anyone with such with either AOL or AIM can talk in real time to anyone else here. Granted everyone has their own friends and such, and that the most I've ever done with regard to my friends here was to email them, it was nice to talk to him in real time, really nice. Especially since he and I are close in age...as he was quick to note to me, it is good to be able to talk to similar people our age, which (at least in my personal case) are few and far between.

I've talked to akemnerus and two lurkers/infrequent post-ers via Yahoo! Instant Messenger too. These and ICQ (I forget what that stands for) are great ways besides posting and e-mail to stay connected.

One impression I have right now is a lot of Ruthenian churches are made up of older clergy and older people who might not use the 'Net much or at all.

I am about as addicted to the Internet as I read the younger generation are. Publicizing the Forum, etc. is a great idea! Reaches kids where they live, without silly gimmickry or fads messing up liturgical life or theological content. (The gimmicks don't work anyway: kids see through lame attempts at hipness.) 'Net-savvy priests and church bulletins are an example of a constructive "reform', entirely orthodox.

Hoping my old Ruthenian church hires me to make websites for them (they've contacted me &#8212; of your charity pray),

Serge

http://oldworldrus.com

Dear Catholicos,

Thank you for that conversion . . .no pun intended.

Well, I normally don't come here because it's symptomatic of my age!

You know you are getting old when you need photographs to help you remember what it was like being a teenager.

When I was one in the last century, I remember wanting to get involved in my local parish. I had projects, dreams and tasks.

The older people who controlled the parish didn't want young people around and so I saw each and every one of my initiatives and those of other "youngins" quashed.

I never went back and would have nothing further to do with the "old fogeys" as we fondly called them . . .

I really do believe that our youth need to be allowed to have ownership over projects that they control, initiative and see through to final completion.

Are there parishes like that? Probably, probably . . . But none among the trad parishes I am familiar with.

(Yes, yes, we all know what you'll say about your wonderful St Elias parish, Galadzas!)

Why are they afraid of young people? It can't be because they're afraid they'll introduce a married priesthood. We already have one! It can't be because they're afraid they'll introduce bilingual services. And by the time the oldies die out, there will be unilingual services - English. Assuming of course the trad churches won't be closed by then.

Just some despairing thoughts on a cold King Charles the Martyr feast day morning,

Alex

Dear Reader Serge and Alex,

I too am addicted to the Net...I'm always doing something with it, it seems.

When the Great Server Crash of 2001 occurred, I found myself wishing that I had made note of email addresses of people and/or that more people would somehow note that they had some kind of IM service, so I could've added them to buddy lists. There were many times where I would've liked to ask someone something, or ask their prayers for this or that, or just some plain, friendly conversation and fellowship with people with similar ideas, values, and beliefs, especially after 11 September, when everything was certifiably messed up, and when friends of mine, the only people I could talk with (why did the server crash? ) would pretty much insult God. Granted it was an intensely difficult situation, and I didn't push anything, but still...people just weren't ready to hear anything like that...I trust you guys know what I mean, since at the moment I'm having a problem articulating it.

Then when the server rose again, I noted that there was a place for AIM ID's, so I put mine in, but since I didn't see anyone else with that on their profile, I suspected it was a lost cause or something. I guess it wasn't. Hopefully more will take note and "just do it". After all, it does get lonely up in Albany :p ; in a place where all the Catholics are either AmChurchers or don't care, and the Orthodox are either nonexistant or have jumped ship and gone off with the Pentecostals in favour of "true worship" (what happened there?!).

In the parish I currently attend, it's the kids who set up a parish website, which their parents can hardly access from home (some don't know how to put a computer on, much less surf the net). They're the ones who started a youth group of their own, did projects of their own, volunteering, raising money, etc. Especially in the immediate aftermath of 11-9, they were down at Ground Zero helping out with whatever they could.

Often, parents don't encourage this sort of thing...as good as our priest is about it (he's always saying the parish should encourage young people, since "One day, they'll be running all this"), even he at times discourages them from this or that endeavour, because it'll mess up with something the adults are doing, or else it's something they have a problem with, and are making the priest deal with. It's a sad thing when stuff like that happens.

Hopefully stuff like that will change, this site will be promoted better, more will come and stay with us a while...and maybe they'll leave screen names. :p

Dear Catholicos,

Actually, just knowing you makes me feel like a teenager . . .

And knowing Patriarch Edward makes me feel "Yong at heart."

O.K., O.K., I'm getting back to work . . .

Alex

Dear Mor Ephrem:

I must commend this post. It was a saga of tragic events we all know and regret. The server crash was the most tragic thing to happen to Byzantine Christianity since celibacy was forced on Byzantine clergy here in the US.

In the immediate aftermath of the horrific server crash, I started up a new site (http://communities.msn.com/EasternChristianity). This site is still going on (there are over 1000 Icons on it) and I suggest that you all become members there as well just incase. I tried telling people about the site at the time but had trouble getting the word out. (I just didn't know the email addresses of many of the people here).

God Bless,
Joe Zollars

Alex, how do you say "Oh brother!" in Ukrainian?

Dear Catholicos,

It is "O Brah-teh!"

Alex

Hey, it's not only "the Galadza's" church. Everyone is welcome. Make it yours too.

Daniil

Oh brah-teh! Alex will break one thousand posts tomorrow!