www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News St Anthony Khrapovitsky, Metropolitan

Dear Friends,

I came across this site: http://www.orthodoxcanada.org/032002/saints.html
where, under Saints' lives, there is the life of "Saint Anthony Khrapovitsky, Metropolitan of Kiev."

Does anyone know which jurisdiction canonized/glorified him?

Alex

This website is run by Lev Puhalo, former deacon in ROCOR who, according to his website, was consecrated a bishop by Metropolitan Ireney of the Free Serbs (before they rejoined the Patriarchate) and who went under Patriarch Volodymir of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Kiev.

Puhalo was disciplined by ROCOR for his attack on the writings of Fr Seraphim Rose. See "Letters" of same, collected by Fr Alexei Young.

Fr Serafim

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I have read that St. Anthony was firmly opposed to a Kyivan patriarchate. I cannot imagine that either of the Ukrainian patriarchates would glorify him. ROCOR seems to be a likely candidate.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

Bless me a sinner, Fr. Seraphim!

"Patriarch Volodymyr of Kiev (Kyiv)" - are you referring to Metropolitan Vladimir Sabodan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate)? If so, he is not a Patriarch - at least not as yet, perhaps His Holiness Alexei may still make him one!

Or is this a reference to the Kyivan Patriarchate?

Just wondering as it wasn't clear in your post.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Dear Paul,

The canonization of St Anthony even though he was opposed to a Kyivan Patriarchate wouldn't be the first time a Father was glorified a saint with just a hint of heresy attached to some of his teachings.

Khrapovitsky was indeed the classic Russophile, although he was deeply respected by both Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox.

He lived at a time when Russophilism was actually promoted by some Ukrainian nationalist circles in the western areas as a way to combat Polonization and Latinization.

Believe it or not . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,
Christ is Risen!

The info I posted is from the website in question. I do not know which Patriarch - it might well be a vagantes claim. Anyway I don't want to start ad hominem flaming of this person. Your posting raised a red flag in my mind!

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim

Bless me a sinner, Father Serafim!

Red flag?

I prefer blue and yellow .

And I congratulate whomever glorified St Antony Khrapovitsky.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

"The canonization of St Anthony even though he was opposed to a Kyivan Patriarchate wouldn't be the first time a Father was glorified a saint with just a hint of heresy attached to some of his teachings."

So being opposed to a Kievan Patriarchate is boardering to heresy now???

[ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxSWE ]

Dear OrthodoxSWE,

If you would kindly put on your glasses, or else obtain some, you would see that I put a smiley on that statement of mine.

That means I was joking.

A true heretic today is anyone who doesn't like the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life."

And before I forget -

(You are opposed to a canonical Kyivan Patriarchate? You should do, perhaps, an open letter to the Ukrainian Churches so that your view can go through the proper channels with them . . .).

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

"That means I was joking."

Actually, I did understand that, however, I think it is legitimate discussion to bring up.

The heresy of phyletism seems to have been made into dogma by some, nor just the Russians and Ukrainians.

For example, I heard an unverified story that a priest in Greece was desposed because he publically identified himself as a Macedonian Slav, which of course is heresy to the Greeks, because a Macedonian can never be anything but a greek.

"You are opposed to a canonical Kyivan Patriarchate?"

Who said that I was?
The only thing I'm opposed to is the natonalism and phyletism on BOTH sides of the conflict.

I can understand your feelings about Russian "imperialism", however, as Orthodox I'm most disturbed by the fact that many Ukrainians seem to feel greater kinship with the Ukrainian Catholics than the Russian Orthodox, not only in a ethnic or cultural sense (which would be ok), but also in a religious sense.

Ukrainian Orthodox taking communion in Ukrainian Catholic churches, because to them it doesn't matter, a slong as it is Ukrainian...

Christian

Dear Christian,

You raise a very important and deeply meaningful (and intellectual) point to which I take great pleasure in responding with some reflections.

"Phyletism" is actually a heresy that rather goes beyond the bounds of cultural/political forms of nationalism and is somewhat distinct, as it has its origins way back in history before the development of the nation-state.

I understand it to mean a particular brand of spiritual parochialism/chauvinism coupled with a superiority complex that kept Christians of a particular Church from sharing much of anything from the life of other Christians or Churches.

Phyletism "universalized" the local Church experience, in essence, while ignoring the greater Communion that it experienced with other Churches.

A common symptom of phyletism was the acceptance by a Particular Church of saints that were ONLY relevant to its own history and life.

The Coptic Church provides us with a good illustration.

And this is why I say that phyletism is not nationalism in the Church.

The Coptic Church venerates only its own Coptic Saints.

This does not mean that it venerates only "Egyptian" Saints in the national/cultural sense.

It venerates only those Saints that had been part of the life and history of the Coptic Church, including her Patriarchs.

These include St Severus of Antioch who came to Egypt, yes, but what was not Egyptian or Coptic.

These include the saints of the other African traditions that look to the Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria as their First Bishop.

Phyletism has often mistakenly been assumed to be a kind of cultural chauvinism in the Church whereby, for example, only Greek nationals would be honoured by the Greek Church.

At times, the Moscow Patriarch has laid this charge before the Greeks.

In actual fact, the Greeks have a very catholic view on the saints, and include Slavic saints in their calendar (John and Paul of Rus', Pachomius the New Martyr of Rhodes, John the New of Suchava etc.).

The Russian Church has also glorified many saints of other cultural traditions, but this is owing to the fact of the Russian Empire and the fact of Orthodox saints among its former constituent peoples.

The Eastern Churches, as we've discussed before, do tend to be "national Churches" wherein the particular cultures of the peoples among whom the Orthodox Church works become "incarnated" within its spiritual tradition and institutions.

That is to be expected for a number of reasons, including Christ's commission to teach "all nations." Also, the Eastern Churches tended to be THE expression and defender of its people's identity, culture and even survival, when all other institutions that normally fulfill these other roles were effectively suppressed.

That is the heritage of the Eastern Churches, Orthodox, Eastern Catholic, Oriental, what have you.

Cultural affinity for one's national compatriots is simply a natural thing, irrespective of religious commitments.

You know of Ukrainians attending each other's Churches? That happens in my father-in-law's parish, to be sure.

But that is far from the norm in the historic Ukrainian experience. I wish it were otherwise.

The Union of Brest-Litovsk divided the Ukrainians and had them going at each other's throats. Both the Poles and the Russians ultimately benefited from that situation.

I have both Catholics and Orthodox in my family, and while we are more polite now, there were times, you know . . .

But Eastern Catholics and Orthodox of the same nation do share much in common.

They should be civil to one another. My friends in the Russian Church don't quite understand this, but then again they've never had a similar experience with a proportionate Eastern Catholic Church.

Ultimately, they both belong in one Church, as they've both come from one Church, in God's time and in God's way, not ours.

That is not nationalism. The nationalists I know don't go to Church and if they do, it's strictly on a Sunday Liturgy basis only.

Both Churches in Ukraine and elsewhere share the same spiritual patrimony.

The more they can begin to think in terms of their own historic spirituality and ecclesial tradition, the closer they will come together, free of those who originally broke them up, whether in the West or in the East.

Alex

I believe that the union of both Ukrainian Orthodox and Ukrainian Greek Catholics is inevitable because this is something that the majority of the Ukrainian people want. The Ukrainian faithful of both Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches are starting to understand who they really are and they have the right to have their own Kievan Patriarch that should speak the Ukrainian language and who understands the sufferings of the Ukrainian nation and its people as a whole. Some Russian Orthodox can't for some reason understand this, that Ukrainians are Ukrainians and Russians are Russians with two different languages and different political and cultural backgrounds.
Lauro

Dear Friend,

You took the "slova" right out of my mouth!

God bless you!

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lpreima:
"The Ukrainian faithful of both Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches are starting to understand who they really are and they have the right to have their own Kievan Patriarch that should speak the Ukrainian language and who understands the sufferings of the Ukrainian nation and its people as a whole."

Ipreima,

not only did you take the words out of Alexs mouth, you also exemplified exactly what I'm thinking about.

This attitude that it doesn't matter what faith you hold, as long as you are Ukrainian!

The faith of the Church you attend does not matter, as long as its Patriarch is a Ukrainian!

"Some Russian Orthodox can't for some reason understand this, that Ukrainians are Ukrainians and Russians are Russians with two different languages and different political and cultural backgrounds."

Purhaps, but some Ukrainians doesn't seem to understand that Orthodox are Orthodox, and Catholics are Catholics, and that Orthodoxy and Catholicism are two different faiths...

Christian

[ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxSWE ]

Dear Christian,

I think, if you'll forgive me, that you rather overstate the issue.

Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox are second to none in fighting with each other over religion!

We took great pleasure in calling each other names, fighting over church and property titles, instigating martyrdoms (Meletius Smotrytsky et al.), and otherwise weakening our entire nation over this issue.

How dare you call our respective Orthodox and Catholic Christian commitment into question!

The future Patriarchate our other friend is talking about will hopefully result in a unified, Canonical UKRAINIAN Orthodox Catholic Patriarchate based in Kyiv.

That some Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox love each other despite their faith differences because they are brothers and sisters of the same nation and culture, well, that's not my fault!

I take no responsibility for such behaviour whatever! I agree that it is totally not in keeping with their historic relations, but people are really going to hell in a handbasket nowadays, as I'm sure you'll agree . . .

Alex

[ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]