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Joe,

The Dominican Rite hasn't been supressed, but rather the Dominican order chose to abandon their ancient and venerable rite in favor of the Paul VI Missal sometime after Vatican II.

In France there is an order of mendicants, the Fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer, who use the ancient Dominican rite. Also, some priests have permission to celebrate it occasionaly.

I think the FSSP priest in Indianapolis is a third order Dominican, and he uses the says the old Dominican Mass sometimes.

In Jesu et Maria,
Justin

[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: Gregorian ]

Thank you for your corrections Justin. Now that you mention it, I have heard that Our Lady of the Rosary Parish (which is a Dominican Church in Indy) uses the Old Dominican Rite upon occasion. Our Lady of the Rosary is regularly staffed by an FSSP Priest.

Joe Zollars

Joe,

No problem. I would really like to see the old Dominican Mass. Too bad I am never in Indy.

In Jesu et Maria,
Justin

I have a copy of the booklet Missal that they used there for the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary last year or the year before. I would be most happy to send a copy of it to you or to anyone else for that matter who would email me privately with there postal address.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Dominicans, Carthusians, Fransiscans, etc. went back to there respective Rites. Multiplicity of Rites is a sign of the unity of the faith, not a sign of disunity.

Joe Zollars

Thanks Joe. I sent you a private message.

In Jesu et Maria,
Justin

I must correct my earlier post. Apparently my profile no longer shows my email address. It is joe_zollars@hotmail.com. You can also send me a private message with your postal address information and I will send you a copy as quickly as possible.

Joe Zollars

Joe, just a minor correction. The Franciscans never had their own Missal...there were allowed to add St. Francis' name to the Confitior and have their own calender, that was it. Interestingly enough, I happen to have an altar missal for the Indult Mass containing the Franciscan calender. Don

Having been to Spain on a trip to investigate the Mozarabic Rite, and having compared the current usage with copies of the oldest manuscripts, I have to say you are mistaken here.

"The Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, and all the other rites have been butchered. The only part of the Fransiscan Rite that remains is the Fransiscan Calander. The Carthusian and Dominican Rites, as well as the rites of other religious orders, have been completely suppressed.

On the other hand, the Holy Father has asked for Spain, Portugaul, and Milan to return the Mozarabic, Bragan, and Ambrosian Rites respectfully. It is customary for the Holy Father to ask the new primate of England everytime one is installed if he would like to return to the Sarum Rite. Usually the Primate refuses. The Holy Father wishes very much to return to the true and proper Western Rites that form part of the Western Church."


Joe Zollars[/QB][/QUOTE]

Don:

This is indeed most interesting. I was under the impression that the Fransiscans had their own Rite as many other religious orders did.

I find what you said about the Altar Missal witht the Fransiscan Calandar most interesting. How did you happen to come by such a rare find? Are you a Priest?

In JMJ,
Joe Zollars

Joe, I found this missal on ebay several years ago. As for me, I was an active priest in the Old Roman Catholic Church English Rite for about a month short of 9 years. Last September I asked my bishop to be relieved of the active priestly ministry and in December was received into the Ukrainian Catholic Church as a layman. As I was also a member of the Third Order of St. Francis, I did use this missal a couple of times, but I mostly used the new missal most of time, again following the Franciscan calender most of the time. Don

CIX!

Just a few points of information.

The Rite of Braga has not been butchered at all - it remains intact, merely not in general use. A close friend of mine is a priest of the Braga rite and he says it daily.

It appears the revised Mozarabic rite is an improvement over the 1500s version, removing the Tridentinisations.

Just my two cents!

Edward

Hi Edward!


My point exactly!

Best Wishes,

Michael

Joe: for an easy reference to which orders had their own rites, check Archdale A. King's "Liturgies of the Religious Orders".

Sarum: I'm a big fan of the Sarum rite, btw... when I haven't the time to pray the Byzantine Offices on feasts, I use the Sarum Breviary to make up for it... I also sing the Offices to Sarum Chant whenever I can... solemn reader Vespers, so to speak

My understanding is that the Dominican Mass was basically an abbreviation of the Roman Mass to allow the "Order of Preachers" more time to preach.

Axios

Axios,

That sounds like a legend

The Dominican rite is distinct from the Roman rite I believe. The Dominican rite has some things in common with the Sarum Use.

In Jesu et Maria,
Justin