www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News SSPX and the Eastern Catholic Churches

Wonderful. I am amazed that it has spread that quickly. I will have to pray for them to come into full communion with Rome. We need to spread the Anglican Use all over. Someone once described the Anglican Use as a bridge connecting the River Stour and the River Tiber for Anglo-Catholics.

Joe Zollars

Alex reminds me of another point. The chaplet can be altered to fit with Western rite Orthodox who use the Liturgy of St. Tichon.

Joe Zollars

Dear Joe,

Just wait a minute, don't go away, Big Guy!

How can it be adapted to the Western Orthodox Rite?

And how come you've not mentioned it before now?

As for the Rivers analogy, as long as no one has to try and swim the Thames.

That river is downright dangerous!

Also, did you know that the song "London bridge is falling down, falling down, London bridge is falling down, my fair Lady" actually relates to an attack on London by the Danes in the 9th century, I think it was, when they were taking down the then London Bridge and the people were rushing to Churches to pray to Our Fair Lady to protect them?

Believe it or not . . .

Alex

I am not as familiar with Western Rite Orthodoxy as some here, but I am sure that it could be adapted. For instance pray for a spread of the Liturgy of St. Tichon and a reunion between the Orthodox Churches and the Anglican Churches. It would really take one who is more familiar with Western Rite Orthodoxy to do this adaptation, but I am sure it can be done.

Joe Zollars

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diak:
[QB]Stuart, you made some excellent points. While claiming to be the inheritance of Quo Primum and the Council of Trent most of the traditionalists I have run across are the inheritance of Ward Cleaver (some of you may not be old enough to remember "Leave it to Beaver") and post-World War II American Catholocism and especially the Low Mass. The local Latin Mass community here lives in relative peace with the hosting NO parishes, although privately the traditionalists generally don't have too many positive comments to make about the hierarchy and the Church in general.


While I certainly do not doubt the 1950's mentality held by many American traditionalist, I can also verify that groups like the SSPX also tend to have much anti-American sentiments carried with them (Some SSPXers use the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius for this end, although dont ask me how). The reason perhaps why so many of my Tridentinje Rite brothers seem to gell so well with the above mentioned period is probably becauser of several reasons.

First, America, unlike Europe, is a relatively young nation which is still in the process of defining itself and its cultural identity. European traditionalist can easily point to such periods as the middle ages or the Counter Reformation as their clory days while the American Church has very little to show for in as far as having a period of time when the Church somehow triumphed here. The 50's probably come as close as you get to a time when the American Church had reached its zenith. So I guess that for American Catholics, this period in time is to be both revered and emulated as European Catholics have for the age of the Holy Roman Empire.

IMHO, American Catholicism has always seemed to lack the spirit its European counterpart. The Church here just seemed to want to assimilate into the pluralistic meltingpot of American religion instead of trying to exert any tremendous influence over US society as a whole.

Robert K.

PS. Does anyone know why it is that there are uniformed guards in French Catholic Churches?

http://credo.stormloader.com/Liturgy/liturgy3.htm

this article tends to be a byzantine catholic opinion about the new catholic mass

Getting back to the SSPX issue and how it relates to the Eastern Churches, read Fr. Franz Schmidberger, the former Superior General of the SSPX's address at www.sspx.org/Negotiations/fr_schmidbergers_talk.htm [sspx.org]

In the section on "Partial Churches" he basically is insinuating that the Orthodox are heretics, specifically also mentioning the Filioque as a necessary part of Catholic belief. If anyone doubts where they stand with regards to the Eastern Churches, this text should help. Scary.

Very Scary

I tried to access the above website and got an error message.

Obviously, these SSPX folks are on to us.

Orders:

1. Begin to use Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, Arabic and other languages AT ONCE to frustruate their efforts at infiltration.

2. In dealings with any one, have them eat raw garlic (dipped in honey is optional) to determine if the person is one of us or "one of them".

3. Get post office boxes for correspondence so that they don't know where we are.

4. Move our bishops to 'undisclosed' locations like Cedar Rapids or Jackson, Wyoming to frustrate their efforts to track us.

5. Remove all insignia and flags (including the yellow/white papal one) from our churches so that they'll think the establishment is Orthodox.

6. Refuse to talk to any and all 'visitors' unless they have credentials that are verifiable.

7. Report any and all suspicious persons to the Office of Homeland Security to have them deported as agents of a foreign government who are trying to subvert good Byzantine Americans.

8. Join the NRA and get a concealed weapons permit from your local law enforcement agency. (But show a 'bulge', just to let 'em know we're packing heat.)

9. And remember: duct-taped weighted bodies in swiftly moving rivers tell no tales.

10. Arm the Ukies.

Yee-Haw!!!

(I apologize for being so silly about this whole issue of the Romans and their very serious problems with liturgical practices. But I also get very nervous when our Eastern folks get dropped into a very Western equation of canonicity and praxis, and they DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO ASK US about getting involved. We just get used as pawns to support or subvert some 'traditionalist' or 'modernist' jihad. We're seen as a type of de-militarized zone where the combatants can come to refresh themselves between battles. And, as a Greek Greek-Catholic, I really resent it. Let THEM fight THEIR battles elsewhere. We ourselves have a number of major issues of inculturation, ethnic identity, liturgics, parochial structures, trustees, music, vocations, etc. which affect our very survival as a Church in this continent.

My own suggestion is: avoid them at all costs. Pray for them and their well being: but STAY VERY FAR AWAY lest we be inducted as ammunition in their battles.

May the Lord preserve us tiny Eastern faithful.

Blessings!

[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Dr John ]

Dr. John, there is an underline in the end of the address in fr_schmidbergers_talk.htm You can't see it in the blue underline for the site address. Don't like that about UBB, but I'm no technogeek and can't do anything about it. Hope that helps. I think it is educational for Greek Catholics to know what kind of baggage is invovled here. Bad ju-ju.

I have instructed my goats as of this evening to detain all suspicious looking Tridentine reactionary-type characters before they reach our house, eat their shirts and/or step on their feet with sharp hooves. I instructed them in Ukrainian, the female goat is named Olga and the male is Borys, so we are covered here.

I read an old Wanderer or Remnant (they are both about the same to me) article about a guy who was dumbfounded when the Ukrainian parish he was attending used Orthodox material for catechesis, and took it on himself, the disgruntled Novus Ordo refugee activist he was, to form an "action committee" to warn the Eastern Catholics about the dangers of modernism and ecumenism...pleeeease...we have enough problems and baggage of our own...
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

Dear Dr. John,

You've left out an important part in your "Operation Unam Sanctam!"

We should replace the Vatican flags with the Byzantine flags with the two-headed eagle!

And we should wear lapel pins with the same and parade this moniker everywhere.

Orthoman knows where we can get these . . .

That way the Latin Crusading types may be scared off the battle-field even before the first sabres begin to rattle.

Then there is always the matter of large posters of St Alexander Nevsky . . .

As for the Ukrainians, they put the "Trident" into "Tridentine!"

Alex

Not to lighten this up anymore, but is it me, or does the photograph of Father Schmidberger look like it was doctored? Like the head doesn't belong on that body? It almost looks like the photos one sees in the Weekly World News!

Dear Mikey,

His head doesn't belong on his body?

Isn't that how some Orthodox characterize us?

Orthodox in body but with the Pope as our head?

Alex

Friend Alex,

Indeed, indeed! I think we may be on to something here. I'm sure if I gave a "Conspiracy Theorist" friend of mine a couple of hours, he would be able to regale us with quite the story, tying all seemingly loose ends into one huge ball with the Illuminati or the Masons at the...well...head!

Dear Mikey,

Believe it or not, when Pope Paul VI reposed, the helm of Church government was left in the hands of one Cardinal Villot, who, if reports are to be believed, not only was a Mason, but came from a long line of famous Masons.

I've met Catholics who are high-ranking Masons and who've told me they have their bishop's nod to belong . . .

Alex