www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News In Memory Of The 50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust

Friends,

A friend passed this on to me and I would like to share it with this board. If it has been posted here before, please excuse this duplication, I don't recall seeing it here before.

Here is the article [fr-d-serfes.org] .

Tony

Tony:

Thank you for posting this!

OrthoMan

Yes, thanks for posting this Tony.

But please tell me, Tony, how, in your opinion, should I interpret the writers' putting together the grotesque Turkish massacres and Stalin's horrifying reign of terror, on the one hand, with the re-legitimization and return of property to Greek Catholic's in Slovakia, on the other.

I share your sorrow over most of what is recounted on this link; but I am also very saddened to see my church regarded as part of the oppressors, when the opposite is true.

[But please tell me, Tony, how, in your opinion, should I interpret the writers' putting together the grotesque Turkish massacres and Stalin's horrifying reign of terror, on the one hand, with the re-legitimization and return of property to Greek Catholic's in Slovakia, on the other.]

How about the return of Greek Catholic parishes in what is now part of Poland by the church in Rome whose authority you are under djs? Including the former Greek Catholic parish that my grandmother was baptised in which is now a Latin Rite Roman Catholic parish? When is your adopted mother going to return them?

OrthoMan

djs,

This is one part of this article that I disagree with. If you have been to Slovakia (I don't know if you have but I have) you know that there are new Orthodox edifices. Many, if not all, of these were built with government subsidies. As there is a different relationship between Church and State in those countries thing happen differently. There were injustices in the beginning (as recounted to me by GCs) by the GCs toward the Orthodox. This seemed to be fueled by the previous injustices perpetrated on the GCs by the Communists/State with the tacit collaboration of the Orthodox (seen as the Orthodox). People clamor for the MP to admit its part in injustices, but what one does not hear often is the clamor for the admission of injustices on the part of the local GCs in places like NE Slovakia.

It was always wrong everywhere, in my opinion, to either deprive a faith community of its worship facilities.

After the collapse of Communism things were hairy for a while but now, in Slovakia at least, they are better. If you are familiar with the history of that part of the world you know that rulers often abused the rights of the local citizens when it came to religion. After all of that when people gained freedom (again?), it was not necessarily managed properly. In my opinion no one won, everyone lost.

Tit for tat was the name of the game for a while, who pulled the first punch is hard to know now.

Fr Seraphim is very embracing of "Orthodox" but his time frame for the most part at the turn of the previous century and the bulk of this article deals with Asia Minor. He does deal with other parts of the world until at the end; but what about those Christians of the Church of the East (sometimes called Nestorians) who perished at the hands of Tamerlane's forces? That was at one time, I am told, the larget Christian Church in the world. The story of the suffering of Christians, of all persuasions and of all geographic regions needs to be told.

Tony

Orthoman:

You have asked this before, I have answered sincerely before. Don't you remember?
Perhaps you could clarify how this question is connected to mine. In particular my question about Slovakia.

OrthoMan,

A good example of government involvement. Reloction of peoples. Akcija Wisla, the Ukrainians know about this.

How long will grudges be held? How long will people wait for properties to be "returned" when oftentimes there is no one there to use them?

I have been there, I have seen the shells of beautiful GC churches now turned into RC parishes. We asked, the GCs were moved out. But now what to do? Take them back? Give them to their "lawful owners?" To whom? How far back do we go. Can't bygones be bygones?

Tony

Thank you Tony.

[We asked, the GCs were moved out. But now what to do? Take them back? Give them to their "lawful owners?" To whom? How far back do we go. Can't bygones be bygones?]

Yes they were ethnically cleansed DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD djs refers to. Point I'm trying to make is that, at times, he seems very selective in what he complains about. If any kind of compensation is given it should be given BY ALL SIDES. Not just the Orthodox.

Problem with people like djs is that he is only willing to go as far back in history needed to back up his claims. When one reads a novel, one must go back to page one Chapter one and read it through to get the ENTIRE STORY. One just doesn't go back as far as needed IN THE LAST CHAPTER to try and justify a complaint.

It's true that in many of those villages the Carpatho Rusyns were kicked out of their homes and villages by the Poles. It's also true that because Poles replaced them with Roman Catholic Poles, their churches were confiscated by the Polish RC's with the approval of the Polish bishops and the Vatican.

If djs thinks the Greek Catholics in Slovakia should be compensated in some way by the Orthodox, then why not compensation for the Greek Catholic Church in Poland by the RCC?

OrthoMan

Orthoman:

Enough of the false accusations about what I am willing to do. As you apparently do not remember, I have agreed with you about the immorality of Operation Vistula (which occurred after WWI, not upon the fall of communism), agree with the need for reparations, have asked a member of our forum who was meeting with the Pope to bring up the matter, and have called your attention to the fact that at various levels within the Polish government some actions have been taken toward reparations. Please search the archives to jog your memory.

But what has this to do with Tony's post? I asked for some qualification to be attached to what had been posted. Without it, this post was breathtakingly inappropriate: it cast the "hairy", "tit for tat" "injustices" in Slovakia under the same "holocaust" rubric as the Armenian genocide and Stalin's forced famine. Without some qualification such a post would be beyond outrageous.

I am grateful for Tony's comment.

It's an interesting article, but it doesn't provide enough information on anti-Orthodox outrages in places like Kosovo, see link http://www.kosovo.com/ruins.html

Too much time has elasped to edit my typo: WWII not WWI.

Dear Friends,

Just a note to say how impressed I am with Tony's perspective on the point djs raised.

And Orthoman is more than correct about the point he makes.

May God give us the grace and the strength to move forward as Christians, hand in hand, toward the embrace of His Son and Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Alex

Everyone,

Always be charitable (loving) and always forgive.

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for the compliment!

Alex