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You are still out of line, only his bishop can condemn his thoughts as being heretical,and again you aren't his ordinary. Besides, he has said nothing that in out of line, unlike you. Don

Slava Isusu Christu!

PacTecvm,

You fail to see the point, my Latin friend. Your very words declared Joe "anathema".

You have no power to do so.

Am I splitting hairs? No more so that our Father among the Saints Thomas Aquinas would.

I would choose your words more carefully, or you just might find yourself "excommunicated" from this forum. And no, I'm not threatening you. I do not have that power. I am merely looking at the historical record of our meager little bulletin board. People have been "anathematized" for the same disrespectful language towards others that you are exhibiting.

I would suggest instead of heaving accusations of heresy at Joe, you would, perhaps, pray for him, as I'm sure we all are praying for you and everyone else here?

In Christ,
mikey.

PaxTecvm is both incorrect and out of line with his post. Catholic theology regarding the journey of the soul after death contains both dogmatic and doctrinal elements. The dogmatic elements are essentially that there is a journey of purification and that pray for those in this journey is good. All the rest, the classic Latin doctrines of purgatory and indulgences, falls into doctrinal statements. Each Particular Church has its own doctrinal language on these issues and all are to be respected by anyone calling himself or herself Catholic. Byzantine Catholic theology does not include the Western doctrinal statements. Period. If you consult the official Byzantine Catholic catechism you will find that it simply states that we do not have a doctrine equivalent to the Latin Catholic doctrine of purgatory.

It should be noted that while the Catholic Catechism is an excellent document it primarily presents the Latin Catholic approach to theology, with only a few bits here and there noting the Eastern expressions of theology. In fact, after it was published Pope John Paul II did issue a directive for each Particular Church to issue an appropriate catechism that better expresses that Church�s witness of Catholic Teaching.

Regarding Bishop John�s presentation on purgatory he is free as an individual to embrace the Western doctrine on this issue. He is officially at odds, however, with the rest of the Byzantine Catholic bishops, especially those of the Melkite Patriarchate.

Not true at all. What would you tell a Catholic, for example, who said that Christ wasn't God. "Oh well, only his bishop can judge his doctrine"?

Sadly, heresy on this forum doesn't appear to be out of line at all.

Slava Isusu Christu!

PaxTecvum,

What would I do? I would pray for the "Catholic" who said Christ wasn't God. And perhaps counsel him to see a priest to discuss this matter.

I would not, under any circumstances, call him a heretic and denounce him publically. What did our Lord say about pointing out the speck in another's eye before removing the plank from our own?

You have quickly gone from being a respectful, inquistive guest into an arrogant, chest beating boor.

I believe they call such people "trolls" on other forums.

In Christ,
mikey.

Administrator:

Sorry, but you're wrong, plain and simple.

THIS IS THE DOGMATIC TEACHING OF PURGATORY!

According to Catholic dogmatic theology, all Catholics, East and West or North and South, wherever, must:

1) believe in Purgatory.

2) Believe that the Church has the power to grant indulgences.

3) Believe that indulgneces are "useful and salutary" to the faithful.

However these concepts are formulated is another matter, but the principles are the defined teaching of several Popes and Ecumenical Councils.

Glad to hear you, Mr. Administrator, think you know more that the Holy Father and a Melkite bishop.

Humble indeed . . .

You would tell him that what he is saying is incorrect and that opinion is heretical. You cannot, however, pronounce him to be a heretic because you are not a bishop.

You are the one who is incorrect. It is a shame that you do not have enough respect for Catholicism to respect all the dogmatic and doctrinal teachings of all of the Particular Catholic Churches. You are doing harm to the Body of Christ by your continued disrespect for Catholic Teaching.

Saying something you don't want to hear isn't "trolling" at all, nor is it being a brat.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I don't recall our esteemed Administrator ever proclaiming you or anyone "anathema".

In Christ,
mikey.

Administrator:

I do repsect the theological and liturgical patrimony of all 33 sui iuris Churches.

I have no "beef" with Eastern Catholicism; I do have beef with heretical Eastern Catholic individuals, such as are frequently found on this forum, who believe they can 'pick-n-choose" what they want to believe as Catholics.

It's the same beef I have with Modernists and schismatic traditionalists.

I advise you document any assertions you make, like "Eastern Catholics don't have to believe . . ."

Just saying it does not make it true, sir.

Slava Isusu Christu!

PaxTecvm,

You say you have "beef" with individual Eastern Christians?

I was always taught, as a Latin Catholic, that the best medicine was always prayer.

Have you said a rosary for us "heretics"? Or are you going to continue to beat your chest and try to "save us" from our "errors"?

In Christ,
mikey.

Stilts:

Don't twist my words to mean what you know they don't.

Slava Isusu Christu!

PaxTecvm,

What words am I twisting? You called Joe a heretic for his assertions that we as Eastern Catholics don't have to espouse the doctrines of Purgatory and Indulgences as understood by the Latin Church. I happen to agree with him, as would the Administrator and a number of others who have come to Joe's "rescue", so to speak.

So, are you praying for us "heretics"?

In Christ,
mikey.

I have never claimed to know more than the Holy Father or Bishop John. I just understand the context in which each has spoken on this topic and how it fits into the larger mosaic of Catholic Teaching. You don�t.

BTW, if you slow down enough to actually think about what you are writing you will see that seeds of the Latin doctrines on purgatory and indulgences are contained in the statement I wrote (�The dogmatic elements are essentially that there is a journey of purification and that pray for those in this journey is good�).

�

Have you consulted the official Byzantine Catholic Catechism on this issue? If not, why not? Have you taken to heart the call of the various popes, and especially Pope John Paul II, to respect, learn about and understand how Eastern Christians live out the common life in Christ? It does not appear so. From your posts it appears you have grabbed a Catholic Catechism and have appointed yourself judge of our theology. This forum does not exist for us to prove our Catholicism to you. It exists so that people can fellowship and dialogue with one another in mutual respect, a respect that you repeatedly have not shown.

Come on people, enough of this arguing!

What does St. Paul tell the Church at Corinth?

"It isn't my responsibility to judge OUTSIDERS, but it is certainly YOUR JOB TO JUDGE THOSE INSIDE THE CHURCH WHO ARE SINNING in these ways....YOU MUST REMOVE THE EVIL PERSON FROM AMONG YOU.

I Corinthians 12-13

If we see someone in a belief or practice that we know goes against Scripture and Church teachings, we must tell the individual for the sake of his/her soul, and to keep the church/parish pure. All it takes is one "professing" Catholic practicing deliberate sin and/or pushing heretical teachings to be a cancer in a parish.

Mr. Adminstrator, please end this discussion. This is getting to be a disgrace to Eastern and Western Catholicism.