www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Prayer st ephraim's

Shalom,

I want to pray the St. Ephraim's. Is it OK to insert it in my daily office? Is it before or after the office?

It is ALWAYS OK to include prayers that we like (such as the Prayer of Repentence of St. Ephraim) to our regular prayers. The important thing is always to pray with our whole heart and mind and soul and strength. Usually the prayer of St. Ephraim would be added AFTER the office...but there is no hard and fast rule.

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear Simeon,

Yes, and St Seraphim of Sarov always included that prayer at the end of his daily psalter rule.

It is too beautiful a prayer to limit to the Great Fast!

Good for you!

Interestingly, the Old Believers have 17 bows and prostrations with that prayer rather than 16 - they always begin it with "Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us!" (bow from the waist.

Just one of those minutiae that I once read about and have not had, until now, a chance to share with anyone . . .

Alex

Shalom and thanx for the answers, Padre and Alex. Alex, have you recovered completely?
Can you write down that prayer completely with all 17 bowings and prostrations for me and for anyone that might be interested?
(BTW, it's so hard to touch the floor with your fingertips while do the bowings without bending your knees a little bit.)

Simeon you do whatever you need to do to touch the floor. The Good Lord is just pleased with your efforts.

Pani Rose

"O Lord, Master of my life, grant that I may not be infected with the spirit of slothfulness and acquisitiveness, with the spirit of ambition and vain talking." According to St. Ephraim ambition seems to be a bad thing. People told me to have a little bit ambition, because I was considered as a passive boy. So I guess ambition is a good thing.

Can you write down the official text of this prayer? It seems that there are little differences from one text to other one in the net.
Thanx.

Simeon:

The translation that I learned says

O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of slothfulness, forgetfulness, of lust of power, and of idle talk.

But rather grant unto me, Your servant, a spirit of continence, hunility, of patience, and of love.

Yea, O Lord and King, grant that I may perceive my own transgressions and judge not my brother, for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. AMEN.
_____________________

I think you'll agree that "lust of power" seems to be a much more grave a sin than simple "ambition." It seems to imply that one would do anything to anyone else in order to achieve one's goal(s). "Lust of power" sems to be a totally self-centered compulsion to achieve one's own good at the expense of all those around without regard for one's actions or their consequences.

Maybe that's why it is a good thing to compare translations to see if someone's "political correctness" has entered the translation process. Not all modern words substitute easily for the intention behind the original when one starts to translate. Maybe that's why Metropolitan Anthony suggests that a one ought to be someone who has prayed for a long time and let the Spirit work on the words within to reveal the deeper meanings layered in the prayers. It seems to me that then one would be fitted to translate--not merely one who has degree work in languages.

In Christ,

BOB

Shalom,

Thanx for your answer, but how about this:
You use forgetfulness after slothfulness. But in other translations they use acquisitiveness or despondency. Those are three different words with three different meanings.

Simeon:

"Forgetfulness" in this context seems to me to include "despondency." This forgetfulness can mean a wide range of things, from the Parable of the Sower's reference to the hard ground where the Word of God does not take root, to the stony ground where it lasts but for awhile, to that despair that can lead some to suicide--all because we "forget" that God is in charge and we need to keep a firm hold onto His Hand during our pilgrim journey.

This is what has come out of my meditation on what this particular prayer seems to say.

It's not the final answer, just my own conclusions to this point in my own journey with the Lord.

Hope this helps shed some light on this for you.

BOB


BTW, language is not as precise as we'd like it to be. Sometimes several words are necessary to find the meaning of a word in another language and the translator is faced with a struggle to find the best fit.

Dear Simeon,

The Old Believers make a bow at "Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God (or "our God") have mercy on us. Amen.

Then three bows or prostrations at the three prayers above.

Then the Jesus Prayer, with bows, 12 times.

Then the entire prayer with a bow or prostration at the end.

It is not proper to make prostrations on Sundays and fast-free days.

Alex

And about the Lenten fast, when do you begin and conclude your fast of the day?

Thanx & SHALOM!

One more thought, they desire to not have to deal with this: You use forgetfulness after slothfulness. But in other translations they use acquisitiveness or despondency. Those are three different words with three different meanings. [Confused]

By using those words instead of the way Bob posted it, they are not having to repent for putting things off, they are not confronted by being lazy about their spiritual life. It is a slothful way of putting off what affects one for all eternity.

Pani Rose

Ambition can be a good thing. It depends on the kind of ambition meant and the motivations involved. We certainly are encouraged to be ambitious for the things of God and the Kingdom of God. We are not encouraged to be ambitious for selfish or personal gain. ( I don't mean working hard because at some time or other we all have to do that)

When personal ambition pushes obedience and service to God to one side that would be ungodly ambition and not good-actually that would be pride. And I think that is what St. Ephraim means when he says "with the spirit of ambition and vain talking."

The disciples argued about who was the greatest(on the road to Capernaum) Jesus later said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all." [cf.Mk.9.33-36]

In Christ and the Theotokos,


Porter aka Mary Jo <><

Simeon:

I have to confess that I like to read different translations to see if I can focus further on what the words are saying. Then I like to compare what I am saying with the spiritual sources available to us: Scripture, the Philokalia, the Desert Fathers.

But it seems to me that the greatest advice that I have been given is to continue to pray with one translation until it becomes my own--until the words become more than my recitation of words and the sentiments become part of me, of who I am so that they not only express what I hope the Lord accepts from me as genuine but that the prayers begin and continue to transform me further into a living icon of Christ--a Theophan, "one who shows forth God."

So in comparing or praying, language is not something to be dogmatic about. It is the sentiments that transform us and allow us to live and to become the Orthodoxy we profess with our mouths.

Do I make any sense here?

In Christ,

BOB