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#155802 09/09/03 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Tammy:
When I first started attending our Roman Rite parish, I was a little uncomfortable with some of the things our priest allows. He is a wonderful man, a conservative follower of Vatican II, yet I see him marrying a couple I KNOW is having premarital sex, I see girls dressing as you described, I see quinceaneras being performed even though they are cultural and not sacramental...

I fail to see how a quinceanera can be compared to premarital sex or immodest dress?

There certainly is a cultural dimension to the quinceanera, but to deny that the spiritual dimension is somehow lost because the woman does not "marry" is in my experience wrong. The first quinceanera Divine Litugies were celebrated by His Grace, George (Kuzma), Bishop Emeritus of Van Nuys, while he was a parish priest.

(Fr Deacon) John Montalvo
(Whose own daughter celebrated her quinceanera in a Divine Liturgy at the pro-Cathedral of St Stephen, Phoenix, AZ)

#155803 09/09/03 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by bisantino:
I fail to see how a quinceanera can be compared to premarital sex or immodest dress?


I am sorry. I did not mean to offend. You are right; it is not comparable to premarital sex or immodest dress; I certainly did not mean to make such a comparison and I should not have used it in the same context. When I first began attending this parish, my only exposure to the quinceanera was that article I had read years ago, which I referenced in my post. So with that prejudice I was surprised to see this "cultural" celebration taking place in our parish. By no means would I consider it sin!

What I was getting at was that our priest tries very hard to keep the Church's arms open to everyone, regardless of how others view the things they are doing. Most of the parishes in our area do not do quinceaneras, even though this is a very hispanic town. I do not know the reason for this; it could be similar to the Phoenix bishop's reasoning. Our priest goes against the grain and could be perceived as liberal or lax for many of the things that go on in our parish, but he is actually very conservative. I believe that he is being Christlike in "meeting people where they are at" both in their cultures and in their sin.

When confronted by the woman at the well, Jesus deflected the cultural debate and instead offered her Living Water. Our priest meets the needs of the hispanic population by performing quinceaneras. He also meets the needs of my family by catering to our Eastern Rite heritage - communicating our young children, sanctifying icons on the altar for us, etc. smile

Again, I deeply apologize for offending you.

#155804 09/09/03 07:12 PM
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Tammy,

I was not looking for an apology, I was actually offering an apology on behalf of the quinceanera. biggrin The Phoenix article you alluded to was not an abolition of quinceaneras but a request to rein in the extravagance. Most parishes do not have "private" celebrations, but are now combined celebrations with a number of young women.

Sorry to take this off topic.

(Fr Deacon) John

#155805 09/09/03 07:33 PM
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Dear Fr. Deacon John,
Combining the quinceaneras of several girls sounds like a prudent idea for many reasons - cost, extravagance, piety... I don't think my parish does that. I have seen some of these extravagant quinceaneras finishing up when I arrive for Confession on Saturday afternoon, and I cannot imagine being the parents and having to foot the bill, knowing that in another 5 years or so I would have to do it again for her wedding. Not to mention that in a good Catholic family she is sure to have a sister or two (or three), who will also be incurring these expenses as their time comes! :p

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