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John Member
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Originally posted by aChristian@Work:
Seems the great evil that is Ecumenism has reached far and wide into the Byzantine Catholic Church. Let's pray it does not grip the whole church.
God Bless! There is no possible way to rationally respond to such an ignorant statement and I suggest that no participants attempt to do so. Ex-Catholic@work has either posted without thinking or is in dire need of a spiritual father.
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I just don�t have the time tonight to respond properly to the issues raised in this thread but would like to offer a few things for consideration:
1. Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation. This faith is a free gift to all those who ask it.
2. Christians have an obligation to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples and call them to accept Christ and participate in the life of the Church.
3. Those who do not know Christ through no fault of their own are not necessarily condemned. Those who are ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and his Church but seek the truth and do the will of God as they understand it can be saved through God's mercy. This in no way means that we do not have an obligation to proclaim the Gospel to them.
4. No one has an automatic right to proclaim the Gospel to anyone else. When one witnesses the presence of Jesus Christ in his or her own life this presence can be seen by others and it will open their ears and hearts to the Gospel. Only then will words be effective.
5. The new evangelization that the Holy Father speaks about is supposed to be an active one. But it assumes that those who are evangelizing are already living the life of Christ.
6. At all times we are to have respect for those who do not yet know Christ, so that by our example they may be willing to listen to our witness of the power of Christ in our own lives.
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CARDINAL ISSUES CLARIFICATION ON EVANGELIZATION OF JEWS
BALTIMORE, Aug 20, 02 (CWNews.com) -- Cardinal William Keeler of Baltimore has issued a statement of clarification regarding a document released last week on Catholic-Jewish relations. The cardinal's statement emphasized that the document, released by a joint committee of Catholics and Jews, was a working document rather than an authoritative statement of belief.
The August 12 statement, entitled Reflections on Covenant and Mission, said that "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church." The document, put forward by a working committee sponsored by the US bishops' conference and the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, provoked a very sharp reaction from many Catholics, who argued that it clashed directly with previous statements of defined Church doctrine.
Cardinal Keeler, who co-chaired the committee that produced the document, remarked that the statement "does not represent a formal position taken by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Inter-religious Affairs. The purpose of publicly issuing the considerations which it contains is to encourage serious reflection on these matters by Jews and Catholics in the US."
The cardinal's statement continued: "These considerations provide a basis for discussing both the similarities and the significant differences between the Christian and Jewish understandings of the call given by the one God to both peoples." The Bishops now they are wrong for this document.
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Originally posted by walt metrick:
Anyone that thinks that proclaiming Christ Crucified and Risen to hurting people or those that never heard the Gospel is being intolerant and bullish are the ones that need to get a grip.
I pray neither of you are anywhere near a pulpit.
I won't mention this or this topic again, either. Oh, well, isn't that. . . special.
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Dear Ray,
Or perhaps the Bishops clarified what the statement really was about.
I was having dinner with my Bishop once and we were eating in a wonderful Chinese restaurant.
He commented on how delicious the Tai Dop Voy was.
But then he turned to me with a smile and said, "But, Alex, don't think that this is a formal definition that you have to consent to as an article of faith - you can have a dissenting view without incurring excommunication. Also, don't think that my liking Chinese food is being approving of Buddhism . . ."
Why don't you smile a bit more, Big Guy?
Alex
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Dear Walt,
Please don't take offence at this sinner!
I thank God for all He has done and is doing in your life, Big Guy!
Alex
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Dear Stuart,
Apart from the discussion here, your last comment about the "special" was so special to me that I wanted to ask your permission to use it in a political speech I'm preparing.
O.K.?
Alex
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ExCatholic@work wrote:
The Bishops now they are wrong for this document. Sorry, ExCatholic@work, you are clearly looking for a monster under every rock. By doing so you have placed yourself in a very unhealthy spiritual position. It has already been noted numerous times that 1) this is a working document and 2) that there is a difference between witness to the Jews and �campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity�. Please make an actual attempt to understand what you are condemning before you condemn it.
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Stuart,
Apart from the discussion here, your last comment about the "special" was so special to me that I wanted to ask your permission to use it in a political speech I'm preparing.
O.K.?
Alex Oh, sure, why not?
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Dear Stuart,
Awesome!
Thanks!
Alex
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Administrator, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ExCatholic@work wrote:
The Bishops now they are wrong for this document.
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Sorry, ExCatholic@work, you are clearly looking for a monster under every rock. By doing so you have placed yourself in a very unhealthy spiritual position.
It has already been noted numerous times that 1) this is a working document and 2) that there is a difference between witness to the Jews and �campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity�.
Please make an actual attempt to understand what you are condemning before you condemn it. Seems to me that you are on a personal witch hunt against me. First of all my name is NOT Ex-Catholic@work. Secondly, I have made an attempt to understand what I am condemning and I have read the opinions of many priest on this issue. Many priest have the opinion that this document was a mistake for the church even if it is not doctrine yet. I have even posted the opinion of one of the priest at EWTN. I am sorry if many people in the church disagrees with you but these constant remarks that can be preceived as attacks are not warranted. God Bless
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Dear Ray,
I think we can all agree that the bishops could be seen as qualifying statements floated by their committee on this important issue.
The fact is, as you've reported, many Catholics have protested against it - but, in any event, the bishops have made NO move to declare anything formal as yet.
Ultimately, Rome is in charge of such things and the recommendations of such a committee, should they become public, would be of necessity referred to Rome.
A priest in the U.S. who is following this wrote me to say he thinks this is probably something being done deliberately to get people's focus off another burning issue that has involved the bishops of late . . . Who knows?
Alex
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Ex@work wrote:
Seems to me that you are on a personal witch hunt against me. First of all my name is NOT Ex-Catholic@work. Secondly, I have made an attempt to understand what I am condemning and I have read the opinions of many priest on this issue. Many priest have the opinion that this document was a mistake for the church even if it is not doctrine yet. I have even posted the opinion of one of the priest at EWTN. I am sorry if many people in the church disagrees with you but these constant remarks that can be preceived as attacks are not warranted. A personal witch hunt? No. But since you insist on always posting with only the most grievous interpretation of anything you read it is fair to call you on the carpet to explain yourself. Someone seriously interested in making an attempt in understanding simply asks questions. He or she does not post the worst possible interpretation as if it were a formal teaching of the Church and then demand an explanation. Your posts in this thread are not substantially different than those you have made in other threads attacking the Church. You have not made any attempt to understand. You have only condemned what you do not understand. But surely these discussions don�t matter to you since you have freely chosen to reject Catholicism and changed your name from �RC@work� to �ExRC@work� and now to �aChristian@work�? It is amazing how someone who in the midst of journey can be so absolutely certain in his condemnation of everyone who does not meet his own personal standard.
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To: A christian@work
Please continue to report what is true and do not be intimidated by others' postings on the forum. It is obvious this forum will bring out emotional responses from others even if that isn't the intention.
I have received e-mails encouraging me to continue despite the attempted refutations of my 2 earlier opponents; I encourage you to do the same.
Be prepared, however: you will be rejected and misunderstood. And probably labeled. But please go on.
Peace,
Walt
[ 08-22-2002: Message edited by: walt metrick ]
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Dear Walt, Yes, aren't those two opponents of yours nasty?! I can't believe there are people like them on this Forum.  I ask your forgiveness. Alex
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