www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Orthodox Christian Mission Center

The Orthodox Christian Mission Center [ocmc.org] sends teams to various places throughout the world every year for short-term and long-term missions.

Please see this press release [listserv.goarch.org] for information about Seminarian (now graduate) Catharine Wason from St. Vladimir's Seminary who won this year's scholarship.

A quote from the press release I think that it is wonderful that she will offer her time and energy and talents to reach out and help others.

I pray that God will bless her during her mission and for her efforts.

Tony

Sorry if this question seems out of place but....

I thought seminarians are men studying for the priesthood.

How can a woman be called a seminarian?

Well I always understood a Seminarain to be one who studies in a Seminary - and this she seems to have done. I presume that St Vlad's accepts lay students as well as students for the Priesthood.

David, when did the designation "seminarian" get restricted to the male sex? If a female is a matriculated student and attends an Orthodox seminary, she is a "seminarian." Of course, this does not in any way imply that she is on the road to Ordination, but that she, nonetheless, may be on the road to a non-ordained ministry, e.g., to youth, education, liturgical music, etc.

OrthodoxEast

We've been over this at least once.

Some Orthodox seminaries accept students not seeking ordination (I expect most do actually). Of these some accept women (again I expect most that are not attached to men's monasteries).

St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary (like Holy Cross) accepts students both pursuing ordination and not pursuing ordination. What would women students be called? I think "student" is the easiest and least polemic given the difficulty some seem to have with this but the fact is female students may be called seminarian also as evidenced in the link above from a SCOBA organization.

Tony

Tony,
That is my understanding. There are many Catholic seminaries that accept students that are not studying for ordination. Those students are not called seminarians.

To be called a seminarian one must be sponsored by a Bishop and on the path to ordination.

Such as Sacred Heart School of Theology. They enrolled 12 new students for the spring semester. They offically list them as so;

"In January six new seminarians and six new Master of Arts students joined the SHST student community."

I think it starts to blur the lines a bit more when we call everyone a seminarian.

To me the difference between a seminarian and a student would be the fact that a seminarian is doing more than just class work for a degree. There is a special spiritual formation that is going on to help prepare this man for his ordination.


David

While your answer may seem obvious to you (and it does make sense, in a way) it would not have occured to me.

MY presumption would have been that a seminarian was preparing for an ordained ministry which would make more sense in a protestant seminary.

My first thought would be that a female studying in an Orthodox seminary would be referred to as a "college student" and so I think David's honest question is very appropriate. Thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me.

Michael

Most people do tend to associate the term �seminarian� with a male student in a seminary who is pursuing a theological education (and spiritual formation). Certainly Roman Catholic usage of the term includes only males studying for ordination. And we know that most Byzantine Catholic and Orthodox priests would probably not list in their parish bulletin that �Jennifer Smithski is now a seminarian at St. Seraphim of Sarov Seminary�.

Strictly speaking, however, �seminarian� actually refers to anyone who is a student at a seminary (and the all-girls elementary and high schools of past eras were also called seminaries). [Dustin and others made this point quite clearly awhile back.]

Today there are lots of people studying at seminaries that are not candidates for ordination. And we can�t forget the Protestant women studying at seminaries in preparation for ministry in those churches. Technically, anyone who studies at a seminary they can legitimately be called a seminarian.

So, the term �seminarian� in our society (when discussing theological studies) is no longer limited to those preparing for ordination.

All candidates for ordination are seminarians.

All seminarians are not candidates for ordination.

It looks like we need a new, exclusive term to designate a male who has a blessing from his bishop to study at a seminary in preparation for ordination.

Or it could be David's way of sniffing out any hint of acceptance of women's ordination........

David,

Apparently in the Orthodox seminaries that accept women students this is not such an issue. In another thread various arguments were put forth and certain accusations were made. I will not participate in that type of discussion again.

Apparently Catholic seminaries make the same distinction you make, IIRC there is something canonical about this, perhaps it is required.

Your points are well taken however the fact remains the same at least one institution refers to female seminary students as seminarians and by the link above we can deduce that in the SCOBA jurisdictions this is normal.

I think such arguments as "Most people do tend to associate the term �seminarian� with a male student in a seminary who is pursuing a theological education (and spiritual formation)." put forth, while accurate, are problematic in that if we apply that same scenario to let's say...the Immaculate Conception, what use is it to us? If you ask most people they think it is they will surely say the Virginal Conception and Birth of our Lord and not anything to do with the way the Theotokos is conceived!

I have stated my opinion before but will reiterate it, it is easier to call all seminary students students. However that is not the case outside of Catholic seminaries as the evidence supports.

Tony

David,

A curiosity. Do the priest-candidate seminarians get an MA there? In most programs I am familiar with the degree that guys get who are gonna be priests is an MDiv or equivalent.

Tony

While I don't see the problem with calling female seminary students "seminarians" it can create some funny situations.

A subdeacon-seminarian from Saint Vladimir's was visiting my parish during an hierarchical visit. After the Liturgy, several of us were outside talking. This seminarian said "I'm marrying a seminarian." One guy's jaw dropped and he looked puzzled and scared. My sister caught on and said to him "They have female seminarians at St. Vladimir's." The guy was relieved to say the least.

Dave