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#158984 06/27/05 06:12 PM
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"SCIENTISTS have created eerie zombie dogs, reanimating the canines after several hours of clinical death in attempts to develop suspended animation for humans."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html

Grist for bio ethicists's mills.
Patients with terminal diseases might be suspended, and revived only after a cure is developed. Would this be "unduly burdensome"? Seems less so than a feeding tube, IMO.

#158985 06/27/05 07:04 PM
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woo-ooh eerie

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on us sinners.

#158986 06/27/05 07:39 PM
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Patients with terminal diseases might be suspended, and revived only after a cure is developed.
I wonder if insurance covers that?
We can't pay for those who CAN be cured.
Crazy, isn't it?

Sam

#158987 06/28/05 08:27 AM
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But this technology isn't about suspending people with terminal illnesses but:

"...to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss."

The article relies on sensationalism and a picture of a growling wolf to whip a frenzy around a praiseworthy attempt to save lives, most notably combat injuries.

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
#158988 06/28/05 03:00 PM
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The article is sensational, but so is the treatment.

I think there will be a number of problems that need to be faced. I suspect a triage process, even when resources are not scarce, that applies this for limb and body organ damage but not head damage.

Inevitably, scientists will also take up the issue of how long this stasis would can last. I don't doubt that there will be many who would be happy to try to use this process to forstall otherwise life-ending diseases. What will our guidelines be?

#158989 06/28/05 03:13 PM
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What do wars, pharmacies and physicians all have in common?

They are all dangerous to your health!

Alex

#158990 06/28/05 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
But this technology isn't about suspending people with terminal illnesses but:

"...to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss."

The article relies on sensationalism and a picture of a growling wolf to whip a frenzy around a praiseworthy attempt to save lives, most notably combat injuries.

Fr. Deacon Lance
confused I can't understand how they will have the time to carefully drain all the blood in someone's body, and replace it with chilled saline, and "freeze" the person, when they will not have the time to treat the wound, and replace lost blood.

Gaudior, not a scientist, but this sounds like " We will do it because we CAN" not "Because we need to."

#158991 06/28/05 04:43 PM
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I can't understand how they will have the time to carefully drain all the blood in someone's body, and replace it with chilled saline, and "freeze" the person, when they will not have the time to treat the wound, and replace lost blood.I can't understand how they will have the time to carefully drain all the blood in someone's body, and replace it with chilled saline, and "freeze" the person, when they will not have the time to treat the wound, and replace lost blood.
The wounds may be multiple, severe, and internal and thus difficult to repair before death. The saline replacement would buy a lot of time for the repairs. I would imagine that if this proceedure works out well, it could, for example, replace the pump on bypass surgery.

#158992 06/28/05 10:14 PM
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How true do think this article really is? Is it credible? Makes me think I might be smelling a farse.

#158993 06/28/05 11:17 PM
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The linked article mentioned "Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research". Googling this center I found that it exists, but the closest subject was gassing mice with hydrogen sulfide for similar purposes. But at PubMed I found a link to this article:

Quote
J Trauma. 2004 Dec;57(6):1266-1275.

Suspended Animation Can Allow Survival without Brain Damage after Traumatic Exsanguination Cardiac Arrest of 60 Minutes in Dogs.

Nozari A, Safar P, Wu X, Stezoski WS, Henchir J, Kochanek P, Klain M, Radovsky A, Tisherman SA.

From the Safar Center for Resuscitation Research (A.N., P.S., X.W., M.K., S.A.T., P.K.) and the Departments of Anesthesiology (A.N., P.S., X.W., M.K.), Surgery (S.A.T.), Pediatrics (P.K.), and Critical Care Medicine (P.K., S.A.T.), University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

BACKGROUND:: We have previously shown in dogs that exsanguination cardiac arrest of up to 120 minutes without trauma under profound hypothermia induced by aortic flush (suspended animation) can be survived without neurologic deficit. In the present study, the effects of major trauma (laparotomy, thoracotomy) are explored. This study is designed to better mimic the clinical scenario of an exsanguinating trauma victim, for whom suspended animation may buy time for resuscitative surgery and delayed resuscitation. METHODS:: Fourteen dogs were exsanguinated over 5 minutes to cardiac arrest. Flush of saline at 2 degrees C into the femoral artery was initiated at 2 minutes of cardiac arrest and continued until a tympanic temperature of 10 degrees C was achieved. The dogs were then randomized into a control group without trauma (n = 6) or a trauma group (n = 8) that underwent a laparotomy and isolation of the spleen before hemorrhage and then, at the start of cardiac arrest, spleen transection and left thoracotomy. During cardiac arrest, splenectomy was performed. After 60 minutes of no-flow cardiac arrest, reperfusion with cardiopulmonary bypass was followed by intensive care to 72 hours. RESULTS:: All 14 dogs survived to 72 hours with histologically normal brains. All control dogs were functionally neurologically intact. Four of eight trauma dogs were also functionally normal. Four had neurologic deficits, although three required prolonged mechanical ventilation because of airway edema and evidence of multiple organ failure. Blood loss from the chest and abdomen was variable and was associated with poor functional outcomes. CONCLUSION:: Rapid induction of profound hypothermic suspended animation (tympanic temperature, 10 degrees C) can enable survival without brain damage after exsanguination cardiac arrest of 60 minutes even in the presence of trauma, although prolonged intensive care may be required. This technique may allow survival of exsanguinated trauma victims, who now have almost no chance of survival.


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