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Paola? Did you have any relatives in the convent? Our new RC archbishop here in eastern Kansas was a liturgy student of Fr. Eugene in St. Louis who started the BC mission.
And yes, some of us have taken the road less travelled...in my case a fifth generation descendent of Austro-Hungarian empire refugees who grew up an Okie and found his way to the Church of Rus'. Spasi Khristos! FDD
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Hesychios,
I have to agree with what you said about the welcoming nature of the OCA. Although I have only gone to maybe two or three at most, all the times I went, the various priests approached me and were most hospitable and friendly. One even invited me out to lunch sometime.
I do disagree with some of the things going on in the OCA, but all of the parishioners and clergy I have met have been the most kind and Christian people, even when I told them I was Ukrainian!
-uc
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Diak:
I promised that I had sent my last post, but being at heart a schanachie (an oral Irish historian), I must talk to you about Paola and its history.
My mother stayed for a while at the Ursuline Academy in Paola back in the '30s. The Academy is where my former spiritual director, Sister Pat, currently lives.
Our high school retreat was at the Ursuline Academy back in the '70s. My friends and I snuck in a couple of girls and some beer in our room, although it was supposed to be a silent retreat. We were almost expelled from Rockhurst High School for that chicanery.
The nuns still talk about that retreat. Nevertheless, I have a standing invitation to have dinner with the Ursulines.
I believe the new archbishop of the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas is Joseph Naumann. We go back to the days when he was an auxiliary bishop in St. Louis and I was an usher at the Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis. Archbishop Naumann is one of the most down to earth people I have ever met.
Speaking of Paola, my great-great grandparents, James and Elizabeth Poland, were the the first settlers in Miami County after whites were allowed to settle in Kansas in 1854. They emigrated from County Down to Kansas two years before my great grandfather, Patrick Poland. Bishop Miege said the first Mass in Miami County; it was celebrated at the farmhouse of James and Elizabeth Poland.
James, Elizabeth, and their son Patrick are buried in the cemetery on the east side of Paola across the street from the hospital. The rest of their children settled in Oklahoma and Texas. Matthew Poland, who is probably my third cousin if I can count right, still lives in Paola across the street from Holy Trinity Church.
We were all brought up to be staunch Rosary Republicans, another name for Irish Republicans. My first rosary was a penal rosary - a crucifix surrounding by ten beads. It was designed to be hidden in the palm of your hand so that the British soldiers would be unable to see it when you prayed the rosary.
Having studied early Irish Christianity before it was suppressed by the English king and the Roman Pope in the 7th Century, I learned about the great similarity between Irish Christianity and Eastern Christianity. This is what drew me to Byzantine Catholicism.
Enough said. This shanachie needs to go to bed. I promise this time to keep my word to not make any further posts on the Byzantine Forum so I don't offend anyone. Just don't get me talking about Irish history, especially with the 25th anniversary of the Irish Hunger Strikers later this year.
JP
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Dear JP, There is a site by an independent group that practices Irish Celtic Christianity and has translated a number of Celtic devotional practices, including the Lorrha-Stowe Missal and the Celtic Breviary at: www.celticchristianity.org [ celticchristianity.org] I'm not recommending you join them (  ) but only have a look at their online liturgical library. As the Irish seminarians say in Rome, Ciao! Alex
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Originally posted by Hesychios: I agree.
I have yet to run across an unwelcoming attitude in either the BCC or the OCA.
Indifference sometimes, but never actually unwelcoming. Our well established communities should learn the outreach skills and greeting skills that may come more naturally to a mission community.
The church is for all, if we do not reach out to the world and bring the Light of Christ with us we forfeit our right to exist.
John: Welcome to the churches of the Byzantine tradition and welcome to the forum, God grant you many years!
+T+ Michael Well put, Michael. This has been my experience also. Some years ago we attended a Byzantine Catholic Church for over a year. I loved it. But the particular priest there was somewhat indifferent to our presence. I asked for educational information or references. He never gave us any information, but a parishioner gave us a few good booklets. We moved to another town where we were miles from a Byzantine Church so now only visit at certain times when we drive the distance to the closest Byzantine Catholic parish. So we continue attending the Roman Catholic church in our area. The first Byzantine Church we attended some years ago... now has a new pastor. It seems there were other problems there as well and the Bishop removed the pastor who was there during our time attending. I hear they now have an inquiry class for newcomers, something we asked for when we were there. So, if we were living in that area we would probably try again. In the other Byzantine churches we have visited we did feel welcomed the first visit, but after that there didn't seem to be any follow up. Something for newcomers is certainly a good idea beyond the socializing after Divine Liturgy. Nurturing is needed...at least for a while. BTW, in reference to John's original post here..My being of Irish and German background was not an issue in either parish since so many there were of various backgrounds...but this was in the Pacific NW... 
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Wait a second; did someone just get driven off the Forum for having unacceptable opinions about the British occupation of Ulster? That is odd indeed; in my time here I have seen people with extreme opinions about all sorts of things and rarely were they made to feel unwelcome unless they were rude. John Patrick, come back! What you said is a matter of historical fact, whatever the Anglophiles say! -Daniel, Ulster Protestant and English by ancestry, Irish nationalist by conviction!
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I would, but now I have been told to join some pagan group which calls itself celticchristianity.org.
I was really hoping that The Byzantine Forum was different from the various Catholic committees, both online and at Church. Alas, I feel its just the same - a lot of petty bickering.
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TIME OUT!
Our Faith impels to move beyond ethnic or nationalistic allegiances. Let's move beyond the question of Northern Ireland in this thread. J2P is certainly entitled to discuss this in this Forum. I'd suggest this be opened in another subject title.
J2P:
your experience is not unique to St. Louis. The Eastern Catholic Byzantine Churches in Phoenix (Van Nuys, Chicago, and Newton jurisdictions), have certainly moved beyond the traditional ethnic ties. Among those 3 jursidictions there are a Mexican-American, an Irish-American formerly of the LCMS, and a Irish-American formerly Pentecostal who serve as deacons respectively.
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Dear Dr. Alex, Thank you for providing the wonderful link for Celtic Christianity. I have been reading the website at great length and am very moved with the Divine Liturgy or Lorrha Stowe Missal. It is very beautifully written! Is there a specific call to the Holy Spirit within the Anaphora? Did I overlook that? John Patrick, Irish saints are very respected and venerated within my family. I was born in Wurzburg Germany. I can say that my entire family was converted from paganism to the One True Faith of Jesus Christ by St. Killian (or Killiani as he is called in our hometown). He gave his life for Jesus as you will see below. I have had the wonderful opportunity to visit his resting place when I was 18. The Dom is a fitting resting place for such a wonderful and loving Saint! Commemoration of St. Kilian July 8
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Kilian (Killion, Killian, Kilian) was born to noble parents in approximately the year 640. Some accounts give his birthplace in Ireland as Mullagh, County Cavan. Other sources claim a birthplace in Scotland. Matters are further confused by the fact that medieval records sometimes used Celtic place names interchangeably, especially in the use of the word Scotland to also mean parts of Ireland.
In his childhood Kilian was distinguished for piety and love of study, and embraced the monastic life while still a young man. Some records state that Kilian served as a monk in the celebrated monastery at Hy, Hy being an early name for what was later known as Iona. Medieval Scottish historian Trithemius also states that Kilian was one of the abbots of Hy, but few other sources support this assertion. There are conflicting accounts about when Kilian was consecrated bishop; one version claims he was raised to the purple before leaving his native land, a later source says his consecration occurs during his famous sojourn in Rome. In accordance with the custom then prevailing in the Irish Church, he was assigned to no particular diocese, but was a district bishop or travelling bishop.
One day he made up his mind to be a missionary, left his native country with eleven companions, and set out for Europe. They travelled through Gaul, arrived at Aschaffenburg on the Rhein and then sailed up to the River Main and W�rzburg. The castle of W�rzburg was at that time inhabited by the Frankish Duke Gosbert (Gospert, Gozbert), who was, like his people, still pagan. Kilian resolved to preach the Gospel here, but first journeyed with his companions to receive guidance from the pope. Kilian and his companions arrived in Rome in the autumn of 686, expecting to receive his missionary faculties from Pope John V, but John V had died and had been succeeded by Pope Conon. Fortunately the trip was not in vain: Kilian and his companions were granted permission from Conon to pursue their evangelistic mission.
On the return from Rome, the original group separated. St. Kilian came back to W�rzburg with two companions, the priest Colman (Coloman, Colonat) and the deacon Totnan. The other nine travellers carried out their missionary work in other areas. Kilian took Wurzburg as the base of his activity, which also extended over an ever-increasing area in East Franconia and Thuringia. He converted Duke Gosbert to Christianity, along with a large number of his subjects. The account of the baptism of Gosbert in a large wooden tub has been recorded by ancient sources.
Kilian confronted the ruling class on matters of Christian ethics and Roman Catholic canon law, and these acts of virtue and character were ultimately responsible for his death. Like most Irish missionaries, the trio of Kilian, Colman and Totman spoke out fearlessly against any breach of faith or morals. Concerning the cause of the martyrdom of the three missionaries, early documents supply the following information: After Duke Gosbert became a Christian, Kilian openly rebuked him for his irregular marriage to his brother's widow. St. Kilian explained to him that his marriage with his brother's widow Geilana was unlawful under the Christian dispensation, and Gosbert promised to separate from her.
When Geilana learned that Gosbert was planning to leave her because their marriage was forbidden by the Church, she plotted fatal vengeance against the saint. Legend says she paid the castle cook and the castle warden to do the killing while Duke Gosbert was away on a military expedition. Kilian, Colman and Totman were beheaded, and their corpses were buried at the scene of the crime together with all their sacred vessels, vestments, and holy writings. Although opinions vary as to the exact year, the date of this event is generally held to have happened on 8 July. The just punishment for this atrocity was not long in coming. After the Duke's return, Geilana at first denied any knowledge of what had become of the missionaries; one of the murderers went mad, confessed his crime, and both murderers were stricken by a miserable death. Geilana was said to be possessed by a demon and went insane.
After Killian's death, a strong cultus was immediately established in Germany and spread as far as Vienna, Austria, and Ireland. Even today, the Kilianfest is one of the better known festivals of the German peoples, including German-Americans. Many pre-Reformation cathedrals in Germany and Austria were dedicated in honor of Kilian, pre-eminent among them the cathedral at W�rzburg, since that is the place of his martyrdom. A New Testament belonging to St. Kilian was preserved among the treasures of W�rzburg Cathedral until 1803, and since then has been in the university library. This same Bible is exposed on the high altar of that cathedral on his feast day, which is celebrated each year with great solemnity, including a mystery play of the events of his life. From: http://allsaintsbrookline.org/celtic/saints/kilian.html and http://clondalkin.dublindiocese.ie/saintkillian.html and http://www.catholic-forum.com/saintS/saintk06.htm Erin go braugh! Michael
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I have found that the Byzantine Catholic Church Parishes are very welcoming to whoever.
In fact, I felt so welcomed at the Melkite Church I went to, I continuted to go (and still do).
A few weeks ago, one of the Parishoners told me that they are my second family (and I agree!).
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Dear Mr Poland,
Who has asked you to join celticchristianity.org?
And do you really consider this independent Christian body a "pagan group?"
What is this all about?
Alex
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Dear Michael, Do YOU know why John Poland is referring to that Celtic group I mentioned as "pagan?" They are not canonical i.e. in communion with mainstream Orthodoxy, but I know they are definitely not "pagan!" They recite the Psalms of David IN FULL every day, do many prostrations etc. I don't get this. Alex
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Dear Alex, I would like to discuss further with John Patrick as to what information on the website provides him with this hypothesis. I may be overlooking something, but this group appears very devout overall in their Orthodoxy. Possibly the fact that they are not in communion with Constantinople? Dear John Patrick, Please try to understand that when Alex was sharing this website with you, he was trying to provide for you a deeper insight into the Eastern Church with a Celtic twist. It was not an offer to join a "pagan" cult but instead to see remnants of some of the original Celtic Christian Church, prior to a full overhaul by the west, that is still in some form of existence. Alex always amazes us with his information and resources, and when he shares this information, I, at least, come out of the shared resource with some fresh insight bringing me ultimately closer to God. I would truly like to hear more from you. I feel we can all share alot. Lastly, we even have an Irish Melkite among us! In Christ, Michael
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Alex and Michael:
I will let you do your own due diligence on that which calls itself "Celtic Orthodox Christianity", but I will help by pointing you in the direction of Pelagianism, the Religion of Natural Man, and the theory of essentialism (not existentialism).
As you do your research, pay close attention to those who may actually be teachers of druid or new age religions. Look beyond their impressive websites and the cloaking of true beliefs behind ancient writings.
Now, I am not condemning the Bobbio Missal or the Stowe Missal. I am not accusing anybody of anything. However, "[b}eware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15. See also, Collosians 2:8; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; and 2 Peter 2:1-3.
In short, Pelagianism is heresy, the Religion of Natural Man is paganism, and the theory of essentialism is a clever disguise.
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Hey.
I seem to be somewhat exceptional. I'm the only Latin Rite catholic going to Russian Rite who's actually got Russian blood!
Anyhow, I'm interested in your post about your background, Diak. How do the Old Believer groups cope with non-Russian visitors. Or did you know some Russian before you went to Alaska?
On Celtic Christianity, although you could say any independent Celtic Tradition vanished with the coming of Romans, an interesting remnant of the Celtic Monastic tradition was the priest Henry Bailey Hughes, who in the late 19th cent. lived as a hermit on a coastal island off Wales. Worth looking into, if you ever see the name.
NW
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