www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall To my Canadian brothers and sisters...

"Soyus neruzhini, respublik svobodni.."

Lawrence:

I don't know if you have been reading Orthodox-Catholic's posts about the Monarchy in Canada, but if you grew up in Quebec as I did, you will know that 'she ain't welcome dare'. In fact, they threw stones at her motorcade the last time she visited +35 years ago. They view her as a lingering vestige of the 1759 conquest of New France by the British.

During the late 1960 a group of separatist Quebecois (French Canadians) began low level terror campaigns against all things which reflected the monarchy. For example, bombings of mail boxes, with the Royal coat of arms, or federal government buildings were very common. These separatists believed that they could terrorize the establishment to gain their independance. This type of low level terrorism was no different to the type happening in the United States at the same time by such groups as the Black Panthers.

In October 1970 a group of separatists known as the 'Front de la Liberation du Quebec' or FLQ 'stepped things up'. They kinapped the British Ambassador to Canada (James Cross) and the senior Quebec provincial minister of Labour (Pierre Laporte)and held them under guard as hostages for political demands.

They created an illusion through a series of demand letters that there were thousands of FLQ members in the province who were at any moment willing and able to escalate the terrorism to 'warfare'. One of the demand letters was eventually found in the trunk of a car with the body of Pierre Laborte. The provincial governemnt under Premier (equivalent to governor) Robert Bourassa requested that the federal government declare a state of emergency under under the 'War Measure Act'. It was under the 'War Measures Act' that the government arrested 1000's of people to determine the 'real' threat to society. The act of arresting these people was lawfull, open, and just given the circumstances. It took several months. The French separatists never forgave premier Robert Bourassa for 'putting down their insurrection againts the British establishment' (shhhh !).

And now for the Byzantine connection......

Premier Robert Bourassa died a few years ago and is buried (under a grand obelisk marker)within 100 feet of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic section of the large Catholic cemetery on Mount Royal in the middle of Montreal. Hey it's the best I could do !

I think it's too darned cold in Canada. In fact I think it's too cold in Chicago. The way I hear it is that Alberta's summer runs from July 14 to July 15 then it's back to winter. Remember that old favorite: "When it's springtime in Alberta it's 40 below?"

Dan L

Tammy - shall try to respond to your questions with some semblance of organized thought, even though I don't live in Canada.
Edmonton is a quite civilized and pleasant place. Its only real disadvantage is the cold climate in winter (which is, indeed, cold).
1) Politics - Canada is certainly not more conservative than the US, but Alberta (wherein one finds Edmonton) can be a quite conservative place. Pro-life? No.
2) religious climate - in general, cold! There is little or no general social tendency towards church-going or Christian morals. That said, Eastern Orthodoxy and the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church are both relatively strong. In Edmonton you'll find quite a selection of Eastern Orthodox and Ukrainian Greek-Catholic parishes. Relations between Eastern Catholics and Roman Catholics are better in Canada than in the USA - which is one reason that Canada has more married Eastern Catholic clergy. On the other hand, the clergy shortage is acute.
3) job prospects. I know nothing of the employment situation in Alberta
4) As I've already indicated, I rather like Alberta, particularly Edmonton.
5) red tape - rather a lot, I'm afraid, but I don't know the current specifics.

Somebody on this thread asked why somebody else's ancestor, who moved from Ireland to Canada, did not appreciate being asked to swear allegiance to the rather dubious monarchy - and asked why, if that was how the ancestor felt about it, s/he did not remain in Ireland. Well, one possible answer is that the ancestor like to eat on occasion, and the Brits had confiscated all the food.
Incognitus

Dear Tammy:

No offense taken here!

Yours,

hal

Dear Hal,

Both countries have much to offer. Also, countries vary from region to region in terms of what they can offer, so it often depends on where you live.

I make far more money, pay significantly less taxes, and earn the higher valued USA dollars (as compared to Canadian) - Yet I had a higher standard of living in Montreal than in Boston (the city has surpased San Francisco for cost of living and just behind New York in number 2 spot) .

PS: I'm not sure when was the last time you read the business section of any paper but the US greenback is sinking like a rock and is at a record low. This will change over time but right now things 'ain't pretty'.

the Byzantine Connection,

There are many prosperous Byzantine Catholics in Canada;

(1) Eugene Melnyk - owner of the largest pharmaceutical company in Canada (Biovail) is a member of the UGCC in Toronto.

(2) Steven Roman - discovered Uranium mines in Northern Ontario and became one of the richest men in Canada. He funded the building of the largest Slovak Byzantine Catholic Church just north of Toronto.

So - basically there are lots of opportunites for Byzantine Catholics in Canada.

"Most Canadians like the Clinton's because they represented values which were at least similar to their own - if I were an American I would vote for the Democrats not Republicans". This is what the former Prime Minister Jean Chretien said just before last USA elections. Hence why the current American president George Bush was not on speaking terms with the Canadian Prime Minister.

...... the Byzantine connection.....

The new Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin is on speaking terms with George Bush. Paul Martin has also invited 'Koliadnyky' (Byzantine Christmas carollers - UGCC) to his home this year. I can't wait to get the scoop !

Incognitus,

Actually, it was my husband's immediate family... not ancestors. His mother and her sister emigrated to Canada and his father tagged along (they weren't married yet). His parents married, his older brother was born in Canada, then they came to California and my husband was born here. He is 38 and his brother was 3-1/2 years older than him, so I guess you could safely estimate that they left Canada 40 years ago. I'm not sure why they left - his aunt stayed there and married a UGCC man.

Tammy

You should take a little familly vacation to Edmonton. You could speak to a couple of recruiters prior to going to get a better idea of what the city has to offer. It often just depends on your skill sets (ie; professional) and what you expect out of life. Cost of living will be much lower than anywhere in California but the salaries will be proportional.

I always thought I was 'right wing' until I moved to America. The whole Canadian political spectrum is left of center relative to the USA. Relative to most people here I'm a downright "pinko" at least that's what people call me when I suggest that a rich country like the US should offer universal health care coverage to all of it's citizens much like it does with education (you notice I didn't say; free vacations, fur coats, electronic home games, cars, cosmetic surgery, furniture for the home, etc... but basic health care).

When I ask why universal health care should not be offered to US citizens, the response I often get (Republicans) are like "'cause their lazy" or "it's not my fault that they were born with that disease" or "my care will suffer if I help him" or " we already pay to much taxes so it's not my problem" or...... The president who claims to have such 'Christian values' does not think that Christianity and health care have anything in common.

When polled 97% percent of Canadians indicated that they did not want a US style health care system. Better to raise the standard of health care as high as possible for everyone (even if not excellent) than have an top rate system for some, basic for others, and none for a many.

The US will probably follow this model in the near future, not because of social policy but big pharma (ie: business) has clearly indicate that the future of a prosperous biotech / pharmaceutical industry will depend on massive cooperation between governments, industry, and society.

I have heard a lot of complaints comparing socialized medicine to HMO's. I have an HMO - Kaiser Permanente - and I've always been more than happy with them.

Tammy

Dear Hritzko -

I was already thinking along the lines of a vacation to check the place out... I guess great minds think alike!

Would I need a passport and visa and all that just to visit? Or is it like going to Tijuana - as long as you've got ID you're okay?

Tammy

Ok, I looked up immigration info on the Canadian Consulate's website. There IS a lot of red tape! One thing I read is that if you go there as a 'visitor' looking for work, you have to bring enough money for 6 month's living expenses. How much money is that?

Tammy

I�ve never heard a true conservative speak like the things that Hritzko reports.

The health care issue is a complex one. I�ve done a fair amount of business with Canadian corporations and was a bit surprised to learn that it is not all that unusual for Canadians to purchase supplementary health insurance as well as health insurance from private American health care companies. A friend living near Toronto recently told me that Buffalo is the place where many people for greater Toronto with the financial resources head for health care. My cousin in Edmonton has told me tales about health care problems in Alberta that make our HMOs seem attractive (and that�s not saying much!).

There are many angles from which to approach such a discussion (maybe it would make a good thread?). Is health care a right? By whose ethics is it a right? America is not a Christian country and since Christians are not welcome to bring Christian values to the table in other social discussions we should not expect them to carry any weight in discussions about heath care. Even if one can conclude that health care is a right that does not mean that the government is the one responsible for providing it.

Don�t get me wrong. I am not against universal health care or at least some sort of safety net. But I also know from experience that universal heath care is always far more expensive in cost per person as it relates to quality of care. The element of competition always results in lower costs and better quality of product. But in with this issue there are no easy answers.

If anyone thinks that health care would make a good topic for discussion please start a new thread.

Tammy,

Unless the rules have changed recently you need only proof of identity and citizenship (passport, birth certificate, voter registration card, etc.). A driver�s license alone won�t cut it since American states routinely issue them to foreign nationals. A visa is not necessary.

In the last few years I have traveled to Canada by both air and car. I have never had a border official actually look at my documentation. They usually only ask about my citizenship and ask how long I�m staying.

I love to tell the story about the last time I drove from Quebec into Vermont. It was after 9:00 PM, you see, and the border station was closed for the day. The gates were, however, wide open and we just drove back into the United States. This was before 9/11. When I drove into Ontario last summer from New York they still didn�t check my documentation but they did ask my citizenship.

The most fun experience was clearing customs at the Vancouver airport in BC. The customs agent insisted he knew me and that I worked with a movie company in Hollywood.

A good friend of mine likes to refer to Americans and Canadians as being members of the same family living in separate households.

By all means, go at least for a visit!

Admin

Dear Tammy-Forget leftwing/rightwing,byzantine parishes, health care and cultural shock; the important question, which no one is asking, is this: are you, a southern Californian, really ready to freeze your *** off? I mean, you are talking COLD! My southern friends seem physically unable to handle cold weather. And the sun rarely shines at all in the LONG winter. Have you seriously considered this? If you visit be sure to do it in winter and then calculate just how long the winter is.
-daniel n, from the relatively mild Midwest