www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Our Lady of Guadalupe

Hello all,

The Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe is nearby, and I'd like to share with this forum some thoughts about this event, without any doubt, one of the most important in the Christian history of these lands.

The way I'd like to do this is to quote fragments of the original narrative of the apparitions, the "Nican Mopohua" ("Here is told").

I will base my translation on the one you can find here:
Nican Mopohua in English [virgendeguadalupe.org.mx]

But I will edit it where I think it is appropriate.

My comments will follow the quotes.

Let's begin with the first apparition. Our Lady speaks to Juan Diego:

To those of us who were born and raised in the shadow of that "little house", these words are as familiar as our heartbeat, more ours than the marrow in our bones, but still, our hearts jump in our chests and our eyes water in awe and gratitude every time we hear them or read them.

How can you surpass the beauty of "He, who is all my love. He, who is my merciful gaze. He, who is my help. He, who is my salvation."? How could we miss the clear echoes from the Magnificat in these words?

And who pronounced these words? None other than the Mother of the Very True God, The Giver of Life, The Creator of People, The Owner of what is near and what is far, The Lord of Heaven and Earth.

I intentionally left the original Nahuatl words to show something all translations will hopelessly miss: These are all proper names.

Originally, they designated distinct Nahua deities, however, just when the Conquistadores were about to arrive, the Nahuas were well on their way to Monotheism. They were coming to believe there was only One True God, they called Him "Teotl", and all other "gods" were nothing but distinct aspects and manifestations of "Teotl".

By using all these proper names, Our Lady was declaring herself to be the Mother of Teotl (yes, she uses the precise word/name of Teotl), the One True God, in a tactic already used by St. Paul when he presented Christ as the God the ancient Greeks venerated as "the unknown god".

God was preparing our forefathers for the Gospel, and Our Lady fully acknowledged that this positive move, as everything good, was from God.

And what does she want? Only a little house (well, today this house is anything but little, but the precise meaning of "little" for the Nahuas needs more explanation, more on this later). Why?

In the Nahua culture, and most prominently in Aztec culture (the Aztecs were Nahuas, but there were other Nahua peoples besides the Aztecs), the temple was, if you pardon the expression, a "sacrament" of the nation. That is, a symbol, but more than that, a symbol fully integrated with the reality it symbolizes.

By demolishing the Aztec temples of Mexico-Tenochtitlan, the Conquistadores effectively and actually demolished the Aztec nation.

Our Lady wanted a new nation to be built, and that nation needed a new temple, but this time, it was to be a Christian temple. A temple in which she could reveal Her Son to us, and then magnify Him, and then present (or consecrate) the temple, and therefore, the nation to Him.

And she wants to do that because she is our compassionate mother. Not only of "Juanito", but, as she said, of all peoples living together in the land.

Please notice the humilty of her language: "I am honored to be your compassionate mother", "It is an honor that you place your trust in my intercession", "Please know", "Kindly agree", "I will reward you for your troubles".

Finally, I need to explain about being little. I've already worte about this, but it wouldn't hurt to go over it again.

Just as some cultures use plural as "royal we", Nahuas used diminutive to indicate respect and rank. Expressions such as "My Lady, My Queen, My Little Girl", are entirely consistent, with the third phrase giving it a formal and respectful tone.

In the Nahuatl language, diminutives are indicated by the suffix "tzin", and you can add as many as you want to the end of the word, each one "kicking respect up a notch".

For instance, the Nahuatl word for "our mother" would be "Tonana" (prefix "to" denotes the first person, plural posesive "our"), however, since a mother always deserves respect, you would never say that in polite conversation. The correct word is "Tonantzin", which litetally would mean "our little mother".

Of much interest is the fact that Our Lady also addresses St. Juan Diego using diminutives. He is "Juantzin" (Johnny), and "my youngest son".

It has been long assumed that St. Juan Diego was a humble peasant, but recent discoveries seem to indicate otherwise:

His Nahuatl name was "Cuahutlatoac", which means "He who speaks like the eagle", quite an impresive name for a farmer, but even more, he is some times refered to as "Cuahutlatoatzin", notice the diminutive suffix. Certainly a name proper of a member of a royal house. Could it be?

It seems to be the case. A study links St. Juan Diego as a rather close relative of Nezahualcoyotl, the poet king of Texcoco, who is famous for this poem:

Is it possible that the Queen of Heaven wanted to meet with one of the highest-ranking noblemen left alive in the country? Yes, it is very possible, and truly a meeting that would give birth to a new nation.


Please feel free to comment, I will continue with the next apparition in a few days.

Shalom,
Memo.

Thank you, Memo,

I had not realized that the story of Guadalupe was available on line. Certainly a lot more detail than I had read before.

John

�Muchisimas gracias, Memo!

Here in Pittsburgh, the Spanish Mass community is having a special Mass on December 12, complete with costumes, music, (I think) a procession and a reception afterward. My wife (from Santiago de Cali, Colombia) and I plan to attend.

Nuestra Se�ora de Guadalupe is the Marian apparition that is closest to my heart and dearest to me.

The power of her appearance to San Juan Diego - as millions were led out of the Church by Luther, Calvin and Henry VII, millions more were brought in by Santa Maria, Nuestra Se�ora de Guadalupe, is amazing to this day.

www.sancta.org [sancta.org] - for more information

Hi,

Shall we continue?

St. Juan Diego left and went to see the Bishop, who was, well, let me put it this way: not very receptive.

That same evening, he meets Our Lady once more:

Please notice the typical dynamic of those who are called to serve the Lord: This is greater than me, I am not worthy, I am not capable, send someone else.

But the choice had been made, it has to be him. Like Moses and Jonah, St. Juan Diego responds with generosity and trust. If the Lady wants him to do it, he will do it. He will do the best he can and leave the rest to God and to the "Little Virgin".

It is worthy of notice that St. Juan Diego doesn't complain about his failure, even more, he attributes the failure to himself. That is typical Nahua education. Also, unlike other "messengers", St. Juan Diego tries to evade the call only once. After the first try, when Our Lady insists, he immediately accepts, and he does so "most gladly", again, this is typical Nahua education. St. Juan Diego is displaying treats of a well educated man with excellent manners, skillfully able to blend formality and familiarity, argumentation and obedience.

Maybe we are not asked to build a temple of stone, but certainly God asks us to do something with our lives.

Are we ready to respond in generosity and trust?

As we can see in (60), God is ready to stop asking and start commanding. Will we wait that long?

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Memo,

This is all fascinating.

If you have seen my akathist to our Lady of Guadalupe, how does what I wrote square with your insights above?

Was I even close to representing the historical side?

Alex

Hi Alex,

Of course I have. I promised to translate it into Spanish, remember?

I hope that in a few days, two years after, I managed to finish the translation.

Well, your beautiful Akathist is not a historical commentary, so it touches historical issues very briefly, and I can't find anything amiss there.

If anything, I would comment that in K 7 and 10, you seem to favor the view of the Aztecs as boold-thirsty human sacrifice maniacs. There are those who think this is an hyperbole from pious Christian sources.

Yes, human sacrifices were part of the Aztec religion, but maybe they were not as many and/or as cruel as the Conquistadores would like us to believe they were.

Small or big, the Virgencita indeed freed us from that sin.

In K 9 you seem to be crediting the image with the healing of Juan Bernardino (St. Juan Diego's uncle). AS you will see with the upcoming posts, Juan Bernardido affirms to have seen Our Lady herself, and not only her image.

In K 12, you mention "thousands", which is true, of course, but "millions" is more accurate. During the patronal feasts (a Novena, which of course, starts tomorrow), about 8 million souls visit the Basilica. Throughout the year, the number is much, much higher.


Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Memo,

No need to be picky!

Seriously, thank you for the sincere and articulate critique!!

Alex

Hello,

I will continue with the narrative.

Juan Diego went again to the bishop, who questioned him more thoroughly and found no apparent contradiction. Juan Diego's story made perfect sense, and yet, he needed proof, and so, he told Juan Diego to ask the Lady for a sign that it was really her speaking to Juan Diego.

Juan Diego went with haste to the Tepeyac, being secretly followed by some the bishop's aids. Upon reaching the hill, however, Juan Diego lost his followers and spoke to the Lady. The Nican Mopohua only transcribes the last few words from Our Lady, which are basically an acceptance of the bishop's demands, instructions to Juan Diego to come back the following morning to ge the sign that will serve as proof, and a final thank you for Juan Diego's troubles.

That evening, however, when Juan Diego came home, he found his uncle, Juan Bernardino, terribly sick, and he asked his nephew to bring a priest to minister him the last rites.

Next morning, Juan Diego went to Tlaltelolco to find a priest, but he decided to go arround the other side of the Tepeyac hill, so he wouldn't hace to stop to tall with the Lady.

Of particular interest is verse 104:

Of course, that was not going to be so, and surely, the Lady came to find him and spoke to him with these words:

And then she delivered the words that have been in the deepest core of the soul of every Mexican since then. Our names, we might forget, but by God Almighty, we will always remember, and live by:

Yes, my Lady, your words remain egraved in our hearts as an everlasting source of hope and consolation.

We will finish the story tomorrow.

Holy father in faith, St. Juan Diego Cuahutlatoac, pray for us, your spiritual children, and for all the peoples living in these lands!

God Bless.

Shalom,
Memo.

Hi All,

I think it is time to bring back, and finish this thread, which was interrupted by the server crash last year.

Feel free to catch-up and comment. I will make good on my promise and finish the story soon, followed (hopefully), the the translation of Alex's Akathist.

Shalom,
Memo

Yes, please continue this narrative. I read parts of it to my husband and his ears perked up considerably. I would say Our Lady of Guadalupe is important to him. We aren't Mexican or even Hispanic, but didn't she say that she looks out for anyone who depends on her intercession, no matter who their ancestors are?

Thank you, Memo, for this. Our Lady of Guadalupe has long been my favorite Marian apparition; the tenderness of Mary's words have long moved me.
Aztec culture is something of an enigma, isn't it? Arguably one of the cruelest religions in human history, yet the Spanish marvelled at the beauty of their cities. Aztecs loved children and flowers, and the parallels with Catholic Faith in their religion truly prefaced the mass conversions that followed Mary's appearances to St Juan Diego.
-Daniel

Hi,

It is, because it could also be argued otherwise.

The tales of mass sacrifices are an obvious exageration.

And, although it remains totally condemnable to express any kind of belief in the form of human sacrifice, if we manage to see beyond and underneath that, we will see a religious process in the various Mesoamerican cultures, Aztecs included, to prepare for the coming of the Gospel.

The Aztecs were "almost" ready, they just needed a little push, and Our Lady gave them just that, as we will see in the conclusion of the narrative.

Stay tuned.

Shalom,
Memo

Hi,

Absolutely.

Those are precisely her words. She wants to reach out to all the peoples sharing these lands.

Perhaps one day we will manage to imitate her good will towards all.

Shalom,
Memo

Hi,

Let's continue.

Juan Diego accepted Our Lady�s assurances that his uncle was taken care of, so she could resume the task of convincing the Bishop:

Flowers? Yes, it sounds strange to our culture, however, we must realize a few things:

Firs of all, flowers were among the most revered creatures in the Aztec mind. The Heavenly paradise was called �Xochitlapan�, which literally means �Land of Flowers�. To the Aztecs, all good things had roots, and a beautiful flower was both, a sure indication of good roots and a promise of a good fruit. The most fertile area of the valley of Anahuac (where Tenochtitlan used to be, and where Mexico City is today), was dedicated to growing flowers, and to this day, this area is called �Xochimilco�, and even today, a choice name for girls in Mexico is �Xochitl�, which means exactly that: �Flower�.

Also, this hill, the Tepeyac, is not known precisely for its fertile soils. It is part of the northern boundaries of the Anahuac, a rather arid area of the valley.

Finally, it was December. The mountain ranges south of the Anahuac were probably covered with snow. The north hills are not as high as to gather snow, but it was no time to find abundance of flowers anyway.

To give a flower as a present was the ultimate honor. Not even the Aztec Emperor could afford to give flowers to his every guest, and therefore, what he could afford went to his most distinguished and closest acquaintances.

Juan Diego surely guessed that this was it. If the next step involved flowers, then it was time to make it or break it.

And so he went up the hill, and when he finally reached the summit and saw the beauty and variety of the flowers there, the narrative says he was �speechless with awe�, and after a just a brief contemplation, he proceeded to cut the flowers.

Juan Diego was not only allowed to go to �Xochitlapan�, he got to cut its flowers. Juan Diego was doing exactly what all his ancestors dreamt about and never managed to do: partaking of the Glory of God.

He placed the flowers in his tilma, and came down to Our Lady:

The words of Our Lady are here more or less for our benefit. She took the flowers and gave them to Juan Diego to give them to the Bishop. That was so much more than enough.

If flowers were the ultimate present, you wanted to give them personally. If you sent flowers through a proxy, you were giving that person the fullness of your authority.

Again, perhaps Bishop Zumarraga wouldn�t have understood all this, but he was going to get his own sign in due time. This part of the sign was not mainly for Zumarraga�s benefit, but for the Aztecs.

The narrative says Juan Diego went immediately back to Mexico City, it says he went happy, full of joy in his heart, because he knew everything was going to be all right.

He�s got the ultimate symbol, beyond anyone�s wildest dreams, and he�s got the ultimate authority to carry out his mission.

Still, the narrative is clear that he was not day-dreaming, but he went with the utmost care for his precious cargo.

Comments?

More shortly.

Shalom,
Memo

Wow! This is fascinating! It is such a blessing that you can pick out different things in the narrative and give them more depth.