www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Byzantine Forum

Well..... If you would have seen the responses before they were removed or heard the comments directed at me you wouldn't be saying this.

How are the Latins picking? what ever that means, when it is the choice of someone to stay Catholic and attend a Latin parish when they are unable to travel hours to a Byzantine parish. Sometimes it feels like many posters here would rather this person leave the Catholic Church and become Orthodox. They claim that this person is choseing the Latin Church out of convenience but then if they go Orthodox they applaud rather than saying that they 'dox'ed because of conveience.

As for my vocation, it has nothing to do with the Latins. It was my choice in concert with my spiritual director and others who I trust with giving me spiritual advice.

Actually they have taken over the Eastern Christianity forum at Catholic Answers.

Well, if Orthodoxy doesn't work out, it sounds like you might be popular on the singles scene.

Never fear though, it sounds like our "nefarious plot" has moved to another online fora.

Orthodoxy, conquering the world one Catholic message board at a time!

Andrew

Alas, I am already married. Oh well. Enjoy your nefarious plot!

It took me awhile to understand that there was more than one persuasion posting on this site. I did join because I thought it was strictly ByCath site. But I for one would be said if anyone stopped posting because of a difference in orthodox, catholic, eastern, western, whatever. I learn some good stuff by mostly lurking on this site. I've even found out a few things about myself. The differences on this forum are enlighting. So from my side - thanks ..

Yoy!
After all the expense of bivouacing all those Cossacks around Munhall and Mt St. Macrina, our plot to take over the ECC is discovered! Looks like we'll just have to be content with the odd pogrom, or maybe bowling?

Alexandr

[Linked Image]

I can do that, maybe I should join your organization!

Dear Mr. Poland,

I was just reading this thread and enjoying some of the responses when I thought that you might just find them scandalous. With my response I hope to put things into perspective for you and give you food for thought.

You wrote:
"Many of the posters are Orthodox Christians. Others claim to be Eastern Catholics, but have not obtained permission to change Churches from the respective Bishops in their old Church and the new Church. A few have not even gone through any type of Rite of Christian Initiation to leave a Protestant Church and join a Catholic Church."

The Byzantine Forum is an internet �cyber caf� (minus the liquid caffeine) for all people, regardless of faith group. It was created as a place for all kinds of discussions but especially those about Byzantine Christianity. Soon after it was created the focus expanded to include all things Eastern Christian, but the name was already too well established to change at that point. So the fact that the mix of posters includes those who are Orthodox is intentional (and logical). I really don�t see why anyone posting here would have a problem with this, especially since the user agreement clearly registrants agree to clearly states this. If you wish, please clarify your issue here.

Why was it created as such?

�The sin of our separation is very serious: I feel the need to increase our common openness to the Spirit who calls us to conversion, to accept and recognize others with fraternal respect, to make fresh, courageous gestures, able to dispel any temptation to turn back. We feel the need to go beyond the degree of communion we have reached.�

and

�In today's outlook it appears that true union is possible only in total respect for the other's dignity without claiming that the whole array of uses and customs in the Latin Church is more complete or better suited to showing the fullness of correct doctrine; and again, that this union must be preceded by an awareness of communion that permeates the whole Church and is not limited to an agreement among leaders. Today we are conscious - and this has frequently been reasserted - that unity will be achieved how and when the Lord desires, and that it will require the contribution of love's sensitivity and creativity, perhaps even going beyond the forms already tried in history.� (Pope John Paul the Great in Orientale Lumen)

Also:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those 'who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.' With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound 'that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist.'" (from the Catholic Catechism)

I�m not suggesting that we can accomplish any concrete resolution of our sinful separation here on the Forum. I do hold, however, that we can accomplish much by acting as the brethren in Christ that we already are and have been for two millennia. Hospitality is the basis for every relationship.

You wrote:
"I now understand why so many people have jumped down my throat whenever I have posted something that was somehow inconsisted with the beliefs of the Orthodox Church. I now understand why so many posters are strident anti-Roman Catholics. I now understand why so many posters have said they would prefer to be Orthodox Christians than Roman Catholics if the Byzantine Catholic Church was unavailable."

Anyone who posts something incorrect about Catholicism, Orthodoxy or even non-Christian faiths should be corrected. Truth and accuracy are very important. I am sure that you are a decent and well-intentioned person, but it is clear that you have much to learn about Catholicism.

Yes, there are some posters that come across as anti-Roman Catholic, and this is wrong of them. That is because of the long history of people who don�t know us and don�t respect us continually telling us what we need to believe in order to be real Catholics. You come across as if you are yet another person coming to judge us with a measuring stick of your own creation, one that clearly differs greatly than the one used by Rome.

You wrote:
"My Catholic friends - your Forum has been hijacked by the Orthodox.

Finally, I now have learned the place where many people who have left the Byzantine Forum have gone so that they can be part of a Catholic Forum - one of both lungs, Roman and Byzantine. I am going to register now.

My prayers in advance for the administrator who deletes this topic. It is so much easier to stamp out the truth than to address the actual facts. I am guilty of doing the same thing on many occasions."

People do come and do go, as is appropriate for internet forums. From everything I have seen in looking over other forums (including the one you referenced) the number of people who have left The Byzantine Forum for other places because they considered us to not be Catholic enough is probably less than a dozen over the past 8 years. Almost all of them appear to have been Roman Catholics who had only superficial knowledge of Eastern Catholicism.

I certainly agree with your comment that it is easier to stomp out the truth then it is to address the actual facts. Many of your posts here have shown that you have a lot to learn about Catholicism before you can conclude anything about what is and what is not Catholic. If you are interested in truth I highly suggest that you study the Catholic Catechism. If you are interested in learning about the Eastern half of the Catholic Church I recommend starting with the teachings of Pope John Paul the Great about the Christian East. It�s all there on the Vatican website waiting for you.

As you read, keep in mind John Paul�s words (which have become somewhat of an axiom of mine here on the Forum): �Regarding the Orthodox, the only thing missing for full communion is full communion itself.�

I really hope that you are not one of those people who reject the teaching of the Holy Father regarding the Christian East.

Admin

You know, instead of decention as the original poster JP intended - as he has not seen fit to respond. I believe he has brought healing and understanding. Those who seldom post, to those who just hang out all the time, brought to the crux of the matter...

A lot of powerful thoughts - words, wisdom, & humor which shows the love and compassion of God for his people.

THANKS!

I pretty much abandoned the catholic.org forum a long time ago. That was the first Catholic forum I found on the Internet. Sad thing is, there was so much arguing, especially after 9/11, that I couldn't take it anymore.

As for the Catholic Answers message board, there is more arguing there than in a political MB I hang out at.
The nastiest thread is usually the Eastern Christianity thread. Therefore, that one is off limits for now, too.

If someone at catholic.org or catholic.com has negative things to say about this forum - who cares?
Chances are, they made the mistakes I made - talked too much and didn't listen enough.

My missus has been asking questions about the Eastern Church so it was time to come back and make a semi-nuisance of myself - so long as I don't become too much of a pain.

Looking forward to helping out in Uniontown this summer, and signing off for the night.......

I have done nothing but become more educated about the Byzantine Catholic Church I was baptised into than I imagined I would when I began reading this forum, I am always learning something new whenever I come here and if there were no Orthodox here than I probably wouldn`t know just how closely connected Eastern Rite Catholics are to Orthodox. I also realize now how Latinized my particular Byzantine parish was when I was a small child and how over the years the Byzantine Catholic Church is regaining her own traditions. I have been one of those people David referred to who attend a Latin parish for most of my adult life because the drive would be four hours round trip, but since reading this forum I have decided to make the effort at least once in awhile to attend Divine Liturgy. I have used some of the links given by posters here as an aid to practicing Byzantine spirituality at home.
As to other Eastern forums the grass isn`t always greener and on the whole the posters are pretty decent to each other most of the time. John Patrick I hope will at least come back and read posts once in awhile and if he doesn`t I think he`s is missing out.

John Patrick,

I can relate to some of what you are feeling, but I disagree with your conclusions. The evidence just doesn't support them.

For example, please see the thread I started back in March and which is entitled "Are We Embarrassed to Be Catholic?" https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003719;p=1 Examine the record, its substance, its language and its tone. Note the absence of personal attacks. Note the well reasoned replies. Note the real compassion that was shown to me in my lack of understanding, and the patience, and nevertheless the firmness of the responses. This is not evidence of people trying to "jump down" another�s' "throat." And, it is not evidence of Orthodox trying to "hijack" an Eastern Catholic forum. Instead, the undeniable conclusion from the evidence of that thread is that this is a forum of Eastern Christians, who are clearly and dearly committed to Eastern Christianity, who are willing to explain their faith with patience as well as passion, and who are often genuinely Eastern Catholic: genuinely trying to be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time.

For another, more recent example, see the fine post by Michael (Hesychios) at https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003828.

There are many other examples I could cite.

But for a final piece of evidence, examine objectively the posts on *this* thread. Note the absence of vituperative replies. Note instead the compassion and forbearance which infuse these replies. People here are not trying to jump down your throat. They *are* committed to their religion, and they defend it ably and passionately. But they also explain their religion with reason and compassion. They are not attacking you. They are showing you welcome and real hospitality.

I have learned A LOT here since I first started coming to this forum. I have made an a# of myself at times, and (many) other times I have made gaffs due to honest ignorance. Like you, perhaps, and like many here, I often find it challenging to find the balance between being loyal to the bishop of Rome and being loyal to the Orthodox heritage: both of which comprise the genius of Eastern Catholicism. Indeed, I would suggest that striking that balance is the single most pressing issue facing the Eastern Catholic Churches these days.

As for your remarks about the moderators and administrators, I must wholeheartedly disagree. This forum is open to *all* who are interested in Eastern Christianity: Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. The fact that we have moderators from both parts of Eastern Christianity is a blessing and a strength. And, I might add, they have behaved with admirable professionalism and compassion.

In sum, this forum is not against the pope. It is not "jumping down your throat." It is not "hijacked" by the Orthodox. The people here are Eastern Christians. Most of them are Eastern Catholics, but many are Eastern Orthodox, and some are from other religions but are very interested in Eastern Christianity: and *all* are welcome here. Yes, sometimes tempers flare, but corrections are made and apologies are given -- and accepted. In my experience --and I think the record bears this out-- this forum is genuinely compassionate, genuinely friendly, and genuinely welcoming of *everyone* who is interested in Eastern Christianity in both its forms: Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

-- John

Oh come on ! Dr. Alex, you are one of the best contributors at this Forum. You have personally (and patiently) educated me on many specific matters and on Eastern Christianity overall. I hold your opinions in high respect, and I'm not the only one here who does so. Take a break if you need one, but please come back soon.

-- John

We're not Catholic?

Admit it, Michael, you ARE now Orthodox! :p

Amado