www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Mitred Archpriest Minutia

Hypothetical situation: A mitred archpriest of one of the Catholic Churches of the Byzantine Rite leaves his Church and is received into an Eastern Orthodox Church. Does he retain the dignity of "Mitred Archpriest?" Does he retain all or any other dignities previously bestowed on him in his Catholic Church?

Also: I imagine this has been discussed on this board before, but maybe someone could explain the dignity of "archpriest" and other dignities bestowed upon prebyters, and how they differ from the RC dignity of "monsignor" (and the various types of monsignori).

Martin

Martin,

In answer to your first question, that is left solely to the discretion of the receiving bishop. I would have to guess the priest would probably be received with all awards, but I can not say for certain, for I do not know of any cases.

In answer to the next question. The awards of the presbyters, crosses, mitres, etc. are given for years of service and as an inspiration for hard work to both his parish and diocese. The Slavic tradition has more than the Greek tradition, with the Slavs have nine awards and titles. Each award is given by the hierarch for various reasons and at different times, and there is no tried and tested formula. The Greeks have only three awards for married clergy, Economos, Confessor, and Protopresbyter, while the monastic clergy only have two, Confessor and Archimandrite. A Protopresbyter and Archimandrite would be the rough equivilant of a Roman Catholic Monsignor. They are entitled at least in the Greek tradition to a jewelled cross. The rank of Confessor entitles the bearer to wear the epignation or diamond shaped shield on the right side. In the Slavic tradition, the color and shape of your cross, the color of your skufia or Kamilavka, shields, and mitre, determine which of the awards have been bestowed upon the priest. In the Greek tradition at least at present, no priest is allowed to wear a mitre, that is reserved only for a bishop, while in the Slavic tradition, the priest is awarded a plainer version of a bishop's mitre. I hope this helps a little.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Martin,

I'd agree with Father Anthony's take on this, but I also can't recollect any instances in which it has occurred.

This past Fall, we had a detailed discussion of the various dignities conferred by the Churches. I think it may answer your questions. See Archimandrite? Mitred Archpriest? Hegumen? .

Then, of course, there are we Melkites, who have a seemingly endless lexicon of titles . Someone, who shall go unnamed, once said to me "If you meet a priest, of any Church, who is encumbered with more titles than the Pope, chances are that he, once upon a time, performed some service for the Melkites. "

Many years,

Neil

I wouldn't advertise that too much. I know a few my brethren that would be jumping at that kind of opportunity.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony, bless,

Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks to you as well, Neil,

Martin

I know of a specific case where this has occurred, and both Fr. Anthony and Neil will probably remember it once I say it.

In 2003, a Byzantine Catholic monastery in Florida was received into the OCA. The abbot of the monastery was an archimandrite (I heard he was made one by the Melkites [no joke, Neil! ] but I could be wrong) and he was received at that rank into the OCA.

But, as Father Anthony said, it really depends on the bishop.

Dave

Dave,

Now that you mention it, I do remember the incident, in fact both priests were received by simple vesting if I recall the occasion right. That would mean that everything including awards just transfer. But, that does not mean it would happen everytime. Vishops seem to have interesting ways of doing things and just because one would do it this way, does not mean another will follow with a similar action.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dave,

Ah, to have again a youthful memory

Yes, I do remember it, very well, now that you've reminded me :p . I don't recollect that Abbott Gregory was an Archimandrite, but he may have been. I am, however, fairly certain that we don't get credit for conferring that dignity; it would have been done by Bishop Michael (Dudick), I suspect.

Father,

Truer words may never have been spoken

Many years,

Neil

"In the Greek tradition at least at present, no priest is allowed to wear a mitre, that is reserved only for a bishop" This is not quite accurate; the Greek tradition does know of a 'Mitrophorou'. The chief Archimandrite of Mount Athos and at least some of the ruling Archimandrites are given the Mitre.

Incognitus

I stand corrected, at least as far the holy mountain is concerned. I only stating the policy concerning parish and monasteries involving clergy in the western hemisphere. Also the right to wear the mitre, as the chief of the Holy Mountain may only be done on the territory of the Holy Mountain, and does not extend to his right to wear outside of his jurisdiction. It has become practice over the last several years in the waning reign of Archbishop Chrisodolous' predecessor and now the current policy of the Church of Greece, to refrain giving an archimadrite a mitre. Instead he is vested with the abbatial staff and the archimandrite's mantia.The reasoning behind this is that the monastery is still subject to the Metropolitan or Archbishop. I believe it is similar to the Greek rubric for hierarchical celebration that only the senior hierarch wear a mitre and the others the monastic veil. I made an inquiry to this, and this is the answer I got back. Being an archimandrite myself, this is what was given to me by my hierarch.

For those in the final days of the Fast, a good Resurrection,
Father Anthony+

Every good wish to Father Antony for a prayerful conclusion to Holy Week and a radiant Pascha!

Back to the original topic, so to speak. There is a small problem: most of these awards are conferred with a form of ordination (this is not the case with Latin awards), so a bishop who would refuse to recognize them is nolens-volens thereby questioning the ordination itself. On the other hand, the bishop receiving such a priest can quite properly restrict the actual use of such honorific distinctions and insignia if he so wishes (I remember the amusing case of a Russian Greek-Catholic Mitred Archpriest who was made an Archimandrite by Patriarch Maximos V and promptly instructed to stop wearing the mitre! After some spirited discussion, a compromise was reached - the priest in question could wear the mitre but only in such parishes and places where the Slav tradition prevailed).

Again, a prayerful conclusion of Holy Week and an infinitely joyful Pascha to everyone.

Incognitus

He did present a rather grand appearance in his mitre . In a sense, he was the modern-day equivalent to Father Nicholas Tolstoy, of blessed memory - a curious mix of Russian and Melkite - and was most devoted to both His Beatitude and to Archbishop Joseph through the remainder of his life. His funeral was served from our Cathedral. May his memory be eternal.

Thus posted Father Anthony:
> ... both priests were received by simple vesting if I recall the
> occasion right. That would mean that everything including awards
> just transfer. But, that does not mean it would happen
> everytime. Bishops seem to have interesting ways of doing things
> and just because one would do it this way, does not mean another
> will follow with a similar action.

Father Anthony, bless!
As I recall (although I don't have time to look it up), there is a canon that says when receiving clergy of h----s, to re-ordain them to the honor that they had. In jurisdictions that re-ordain Catholic clergy, the cleric received is always, in my experience, given the same rank and titles and whatnot that he had previous to conversion to Orthodoxy.

As for the case of Byzantine Catholic monastery in Florida that was received into the OCA, I noted that the abbot apparently was received as a priest without being re-ordained. I knew an RC priest who was received into the OCA c 1980 who said he was received as a layman and re-ordained ... does anyone know if there's been a change in policy in the OCA, or if that varies from bishop to bishop, or is my memory garbled?

Kissing your right hand and wishing you a radiant Pascha,
Photius

Thus posted Incognitus:
> The chief Archimandrite of Mount Athos and at least
> some of the ruling Archimandrites are given the Mitre.

Dear Incognitus,
On Athos, only Russian archimandrites, serving in the Russian Laura or some other monastic institution that uses the Russian Typicon, wear a mitre. Other than bishops, no non-Russian wears a mitre on the Holy Mountain, nor does any Russian anywhere other than where Russian customs are in use (and that commemorate the Patriarch of Moscow in addition to the Patriarch of Constantinople).

There is no "chief Archimandrite of Mount Athos" !!! The government of Athos consists of, for state matters, a lay governor appointed by the State and, for ecclesiastical matters, there is a governing body, the Sacred Epistasia, consisting of a representative from each of the 20 ruling lauras, which has a revolving chair with, if I recall correctly, a one year term. Each of the 20 lauras is stauropegial, and answers only to the Patriarch of Constantinople. Note that the Holy Mountain is one of two places in Greece that are part of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and not part of the Church of Greece (the other being the Dodecanese).

Kali Anastasi! S prazdnikom!
Photius

Here is something from Bishop Tikhon (OCA Diocese of the West) on this matter:

http://www.holy-trinity.org/liturgics/tikhon.lit10.html

I think that the difference in OCA practice often has to do with whether the Catholic priest married after his ordination or not.

Dave