www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Just Wrong

Aw c'mon, Alex! I don't think that's a fair characterization. There are still many good, holy and hard-working priests who toil uncomplainingly "behind the scenes" -- and I think you are honest enough to acknowledge that's true.

The problem is that the "spiritual wimps" tend to be the ones in positions of authority -- and these days they're more likely to be women (nuns) than men anyway!

But thanks for the compliment, I'm sure I would be an asset to any priest foolish enough -- errr, I mean wise enough to marry me!

Dear Dolly,

I am well upbraided!

I just love it when you do that . . . Any time!

Alex

Why this desire to blame homosexuals for all that is evil?

Even to the point of your President making the non-issue of Gay marriges as a major issue in his re-election campaign...

"Defence of Marriage Act", -ridiculous! As if the brakedown of marriages among heterosexuals had anything to do with gays!

If you really want to defend marrige and make the State's law subject to your religion then outlaw remarriage after divorce!

Christian

I've never ever suggested that homosexuals were responsible for all that is evil. Homosexuality is just one of many symptoms of a society that has turned completely away from Christ. Their are a great many others as well.

While I think that for a Christian, a persistent affliction with same sex attraction is a sign that the person is called to some sort of chosen celibacy [is there any other moral option?] I don't think that homosexuals [by which I mean men whose overwhelming lifelong attraction is to other men, not those who experienced some minor degree of confusion in adolescence] should not be ordained to the priesthood. Hermits, fine. Monks, great. Members of institutes of consecrated life, certainly. The priesthood, though, is ontologically related to marriage. The priest is ontologically called to be an "alter Christus", another Christ, who is bridegroom to the Church. As grace builds on nature this presupposes a normal orientation to woman.
That said, I do think that the crisis in the Western Church is related to celibacy. The way most priests in the West have to live out their celibate vocation, at least since the decline in numbers began in the late 60s -a period roughly the same as that of the crisis- is by living a solitary life, isolated both from his brother priests and too often from his parishoners [due to the clericalist training in many seminaries; when I was in the seminary we were taught to remain aloof from the laity, to cultivate the celibate mystique]. Anyone living such a life, unless gifted with the eremetical charism, is going to have a rough time. Lonely, stressed out, emotionally needy and in most cases having access to cable TV and the Internet, it isn't surprising that their minds begin wandering in strange paths. Perhaps latent tendencies that in a healthier emotional environment would have remained latent begin to be aroused. As most of these men began their life of celibacy while adolescents, that is where their emotional development is stunted, and where they begin to look for solace.
And LT, you are naive if you think that theological traditionalists are immune from these disorders. There was a crowd in the seminary that favored lace surplices, sentimental devotions and high liturgy. We called them "the daughters of Trent". And the one guy I personally knew who is currently imprisoned for such sins was a theological, political, and personal conservative.
Not that liberals don't lack some of the defenses that traditionalists have to these sins -I'm sure the trads at least felt horrible guilt while the liberals justified their acts.

I should note that the one friend of mine who has most successfully dealt with same-sex attraction [not without struggles and falls] is now a hermit, living a very ascetic [albeit lonely] life.
And LT- I suppose you think the allegations about the founders of the Legionaries and the Society of St John are unfounded? For all I know, they are, but the accusations I read sounded credible, and I suspect if such things were alleged of a liberal you would believe them without hesitation...

I think a large part of the abuse problem is a combination of the shortage of priests and the fact that celibacy is imposed on the RC priesthood.

I think as the situation stands, a lot of sexually unheathy men enter the priesthood as a means of trying to run away from their problems. Instead of facing their problem, whether it be SSA or pedophilia, they opt for a vocation which calls for a celibate lifystyle because they hope escape from the temptation.

Additionally, with a celibate priesthood, priests are often regarded as asexual beings, which they are not, which further presses the priest from hiding his problems instead of dealing with them. They may intend to keep themselves celibate and chaste, but eventually living in denial gets to be more than they can handle, and the confused sexual desires overwhelm them

If the RC allowed for married clergy, it would help to solve the problem of the shortage of priests as well as give the RCC a pool of sexually healthy men to choose from as priests. Additionally, since priests would no longer feel that they were supposed to be asexual, one who found himself tempted with unhealthy desires would be more likely to seek help for his affliction instead of try to hide it, both from the world and from himself.

I think making a choice to be celibate in devotion to Christ is a thing to be admired. Scripture says it is better to be celibate, but still allows for married presbyters.

The problem is bigger than you can imagine.

Just look at these sites if your stomach can handle it... It is not only a Catholic problem. It is not a Homosexual problem... it does exist in the the Byzantine and Orthodox Churches... There are also many vulnerable adult victims both male and female...

Bottom Line... the Church and Lay people forget about how the Victims/ survivors feel and struggle.

http://www.pokrov.org/

http://www.thelinkup.org/

http://snapnetwork.org/

http://www.rcf.org/

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

http://www.chezcsn.com/a_church_in_denial.htm

http://www.tantric-reiki.com/my_story.html