www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Byzantine Forum: truth in labeling?

It has happened not infrequently: someone will object to the perceived unfair treatment of Latin Catholics on the Forum. You know, the perception that a lot more is tolerated from hostile Orthodox than from well-meaning and curious Romans. The Administrator will then point out that this is a Byzantine, not a Catholic site.
However, I first came to this site from a link on the site for the Byzantine Catholic Church, and across the bottom of every page it says that the Forum is an "UNOFFICIAL site of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America". It is entirely understandable that a wandering Roman Catholic might think, therefore, that this IS a Catholic site and be unnecessarily offended when their well-meaning questions are met with hostility.[I know there have been offensive Latins from time to time but too often those who post from a Roman perspective mean no harm at all].
So, my question is this: ought the Forum change its structure to make it plain if it is not a Catholic site? Or should we all make a concerted effort to be more patient and understanding with our Latin brethren?

We are always open to suggestions and the topic is a fair one for discussion.

It has been my experience that, if people don�t bother to read the Forum Policies that they must agree to during the registration process (which quite clearly state that this is an Eastern Christian and not an Eastern Catholic forum), then they will not bother to read anything anywhere else indicating this.

Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters are woefully uneducated about Eastern Christianity in general and about Byzantine Catholicism in particular. Even though I have a brief history linked from the home page that clearly states that we are in communion with Rome, I routinely get e-mails from people calling us to abandon our heresies and return to the Roman Catholic Church.

As the Administrator stated in the above post, my experience with this forum is that it is pretty much what it presents itself to be: a place where Byzantine Catholics can discuss thier faith and others can learn about the Byzantine faith. As far as anyone feeling they are being treated unfairly, that is generally the result of interactions between individuals. Unfortunately even on forums such as this people can sometimes be hostile or condemming, rather then disagreeing courteously. All we can do is try to treat everyone as charitably as we can, even if we don't agree with what they say.

I have now been a member of this Forum for some time.

I have been totally up front about being an RC - I think everyone knows - even my ID indicates it.

I have on only a few occasions, been treated with other than courtesy and kindness , and willingness to answer any questions.

I have made friendships with both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox members.

But at the same time - yes from time to time there can be problems with new members - but I suspect that these members would have problems no matter to which Forum they belong - after all I openly admit to having been banned from one RC forum as I was not Catholic enough for them - a banning which has caused me no end of amusement.

The only people , to my mind , who do have problems here are those who are strongly convinced that they are right and everyones else is wrong - and Byzantine Catholics Orthodox Christians, Oriental Orthodox , Tridentine Catholics - oh do I really have to go on trying to get everyone in alphabetical order ? - have no sole right to this frame of mind.

I really cannot see how this suggestion of Iconophile will help.

Those who come with a chip on their shoulder will have that chip no matter whether they post here or any other Internet Forum - and those are the people who will not read the agreement or policies to which they have to sign their agreement before their registration is accepted.

All,

I think you are doing a good job as a Byzantine Forum because you attract both Orthodox and Catholic Byzantine and Roman Catholic Christians. I should mention the Christians of other Eastern traditions that also gather here.

I've never felt unfairly treated on this forum.
You have been kind to me when I make mistakes.

God bless you and may St Michael the Archangel protect you from every evil.

Paul

IF anyone thinks that we have problems it would suffice to take a look at some other presences on the Internet - several years ago a friend kindly signed me up for an Eastern Catholic discussion list, or something like that, based in the Western USA. Turned out that they required a loyalty oath worded in such a way that no one with an honest heart and a theological education could possibly have taken it. Without ever attempting to post anything, I pointed out the theological impossiblity to whoever was in charge - who thereupon "expelled" me from a list I had never asked to join and never made use of. I'm still wondering whether that list was real, or just the figment of some fanatic's imagination. Incognitus

I, too, think this is a great site where Orthodox and Catholic can meet and I would not want that to change.

I also must say that I did not know until recently that this is not a Catholic site. I'm not saying that it ought to be one. It was a surprise for me to learn that. I would agree that the wording at the bottom of the page would make you think this is a Catholic site. Perhaps the wording should be changed.

Re-thinking what I wrote above...Part of me wishes my perception that this was a Byzantine Catholic site had been correct. There are plenty of Orthodox sites and plenty of Roman Catholic sites. We Byzantine Catholics should have a site also. Maybe someday there'll be one.

As it is, I can see how someone new to the Forum could misunderstand and assume this is a Byzantine Catholic Forum.

WOW! Can you please post the Forum Policies again for all of us who registered long ago? If this is an Eastern Christian forum and not just an Eastern Catholic forum, then why are only Catholic parishes of the East linked? On one hand, the website is Eastern "Catholic," at least from the look of the parishes linked at its parish websites, but on the other hand its forum is Eastern "Christian." The lack of consistency is confusing. What exactly IS this this "byzcath" website?

Joe

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Hi Dave,

Me too!
Possibly, I had assumed that it was a Catholic site, but then I was surprised how active it is.

Most boards I have seen that devote space to Eastern Catholicism are pretty dead in that corner.
I think so eventually.

But for now I think the population of Eastern Catholics is just too thin in the English speaking world to sustain a board without the participation of many Latins and Orthodox, then we'd have something like this! The only alternative I can see to this environment would be one that is much more heavily moderated.

But then, I would probably fall asleep reading it!
Ditto, I think the confusion on a visitors part is totally understandable. But I think eliminating that confusion will not change the problems, people will not behave any different. There will always be those who live for the gladiatorial polemical match and want to prove we are all heretics. They come like shooting stars, from every direction and every theological perspective.

But most people who post here are more than kind, very thoughtful. I am always moved by the postings in the prayer section.

I never cease to learn something new (and I have so much to learn!) whether it is a book recommendation or an argument about liturgical practice. I am constantly fascinated, that is, when I'm not annoyed!

I suppose that if people come wanting to learn something or share something they will not have any problems, if they seek this board out with an agenda to teach, admonish and reprove the wayward souls here they are going to have trouble.

Michael

I'm glad to be confused , never would learned so much about my Eastern brethern .

james

Anyone who wishes can read this by logging off and then logging back on again. But if you do make sure to remember your password!

Here is the text:

Welcome to The Byzantine Forum!

The Byzantine Forum welcomes all newcomers to our on-line community. This forum is mainly a community of Byzantine and other Eastern Christians who share a common historical and theological heritage. As such, it is an Eastern Christian forum and not specifically a Catholic forum. Roman Catholic and other Western Christians who have come here to learn about how we express our faith in Christ are warmly invited to participate, but we make clear that the primary purpose of this forum is to exchange information and ideas and not to engage in heavy apologetics. If you have come to overload us with apologetic quotes to test how "Catholic" we really are, please don't bother to register - that is simply not how we live out our lives of faith.

To truly understand who Eastern Christians are you must "come and see" for yourself by joining us in worship. The warmth and fellowship of our faith experienced in person cannot be described in any book. We extend a warm invitation to everyone to visit one of our parishes and join us in prayer.

General Information about The Byzantine Forum

Considering the real-time nature of The Byzantine Forum, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we at www.byzcath.org do not actively monitor the contents of The Byzantine Forum and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of www.byzcath.org or any entity associated with The Byzantine Forum. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use The Byzantine Forum to post any material which is unchristian, knowingly false and/or defamatory, accusatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.

Although the owners of The Byzantine Forum do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at The Byzantine Forum reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this BB, Madrona Park, Inc. (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s).

We at www.byzcath.org also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Participants may provide a link to their personal website in their profile but it is not permitted to provide such a link in their display name or signature. Links relevant to the topic under discussion are always permitted provided the link is germane and in good taste.

Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate to The Byzantine Forum. Please also note that, if you are registering simply to post an advertisement to another site, you may do so only in one forum and may choose between the News or Town Hall forums to make your announcement. Those posting the same information in multiple forums will lose posting privleges and will be banned.

Again, please note that The Byzantine Forum is an on-line meeting place for Christians especially focusing on Byzantine Christianity (both Catholic and Orthodox). As you discuss your faith please remember that those visiting the Byzantine Forum who do not share our faith in Christ will form an opinion of Byzantine Christianity based upon what YOU post.

Please note that we no longer accept registrations from Hotmail accounts! Please use another e-mail address to register.

Please also note that each participant is limited to one User Name. Anyone caught using multiple User Names will forfeit all posting privileges.

Thanks, Administrator, for re-posting this. Still, one can read posts from this Forum without receiving this notification. I know I sometimes read this board from work and I'm not logged in. So some visitors to the Forum do not see the above statement. The description at the bottom of each page on the Forum says:

Unless one reads the statement you just posted the quote above could easily make one think this is a Byzantine Catholic Forum. Perhaps rewording the above statement would make the situation more clear?

James I agree!

Gees, I have so much to learn. I just figured this is a good place to kick off your shoes and prop your feet up and have an interesting discussion with the cyber neighbors over a cup of coffe.

There must be something wrong with me when I understnd the Eastern Catholic, Eastern Christian thing. The purposed strived for is to bring discussion between Eastern Catholics and Orthodox, but in reality, it takes discussion between those two, along with Roman Catholics, and the occassional protestant who happens aboard. We are about understanding who we are as the Eucharistic/Sacramental Church of Christ, and how we come together.

You know if just one of the people, in the lifetime of this forum that is a guest converts from any paganism or comes to the Eucharistic Lord through the work of this forum, then every word that is ever printed in it will have been worthwhile.

May God grant us many years of peace, health, and happiness, as we strive to understand who we are as children of God in His Body that is so sorely divided. May he forgive us for those we have unjustly harmed in any way through word or action, and heal the wounds. Jesus said that conversion is done not by power or might, but by His Spirit. Come Holy Spirit! Fill our hearts that we sing of your joy, and respond in love and compassion even in disagreement.

Pani Rose

Joe,

The website itself offers information about the Byzantine Catholic Church and links of interest.

The Byzantine Forum is an extension of the website and is Eastern Christian (and not specifically Byzantine Catholic). This is the only way that all Eastern Christians can feel at home here. This is also why it is �The Byzantine Forum� and not �The Byzantine Catholic Forum�. About a year ago (maybe more) we had a similar discussion wherein some participants recommended that we rename it "The Eastern Christian Forum" because the use of the term "Byzantine" was too restrictive. At that time I noted that it was fair point but because The Byzantine Forum is now well known it would not be a good idea to change its name.

The listing of parishes is part of the website. It would be wonderful to develop a totally pan-Eastern Christian website (which is why I created www.easten-christian-churches.net/index.asp) [easten-christian-churches.net] but I just don�t have the time right now to keep both sites up to date and this one is more important. If you or someone else is willing to develop a page containing links to other Eastern Christian parishes I would be happy to host it.

I realize that my various efforts to serve the Church where I see a need are rather poor. I apologize for the confusion that you and others are experiencing. If you or anyone else have suggestions for improvement that are not overly time consuming I will be very happy to consider them.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

Thanks for all your work on this Forum and on the sites! I had never seen the other site (Eastern-Christians-net). We just need to get someone to hire you full time to develop sites (does Metropolitan Basil read the Forum? )

As it is, you're doing a great job!