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I've just finished reading novelist Anne Rice's book, "Christ the Lord," and am happy to report that it's both enjoyable AND quite consistent with Catholic doctrine.

She totally affirms the Virgin Birth and Mary's perpetual virginity (Jesus has several brothers and sisters, but they're from Joseph's first marriage). And in a moving section titled "Author's Notes" at the end of the book, tells how she lost, then regained, her faith. She really slams the "search for the historical Jesus" scholars and shows how much of the skeptical research of the last couple of centuries is completely biased against Christianity. And about how the death of her husband, an atheist, helped her find Christ again.

Yes, as you may have read elsewhere, it's true she's still not convinced about the all-male priesthood, and homosexuality. But that's not really surprising (to me anyway) - anyone who's ever read her novels ("Interview with the Vampire", etc.) will know what I mean when I say that she's come VERY far already - and I think her conversion is genuine and will last.

In short, "Christ the Lord" by Anne Rice is a great beginning - and a welcome alternative to "The DaVinci Code"!! wink

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And of her reported writing that Christ does not know who He is at all times?

Gaudior, very curious, as reviews indicate that she is not very consistent with Catholic doctrine.

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Originally posted by Gaudior:
And of her reported writing that Christ does not know who He is at all times?

Gaudior, very curious, as reviews indicate that she is not very consistent with Catholic doctrine.
It's interesting the way she deals with the question, and I'm not sure whether it's theologically "correct". However, it sounds reasonable to me. Then again I'm not theologically "correct" either.

However, my interpretation of it throughout the book is that, when in repose (when in silence, praying, or sleeping) the child Jesus knows everything - she describes dreams He has in which a suspicious Lucifer is already trying to tempt Him, and He knows exactly what's happening and why.

But in his waking life - as a "normal" human child - this knowledge seems to be shielded from His concious mind. At one point He (via the author) compares it to the Holy of Holies in the Temple, shielded by a thick curtain which is only opened at the will of the Father.

My impression (and again, I'm interpreting from my reading of the novel, because it's never actually spelled out as such) is that Rice believes the Father shelters the Son from "TMI" [too much information] so He can experience a normal human childhood, but that the knowledge is given to Him when it's necessary, and as he matures, He receives more and more of it.

I have read a lot of the same articles and reviews you have, Gaudior, and what irks me is that so many people are willing to pass judgment without actually reading the book.

All I can say is, I'm not a professional theologian. However, I am a believing Christian, a Latin Rite Catholic currently attending the Byzantine Catholic Church, a voracious reader, and a regular contributor to this Forum. If my opinion means anything, I found nothing whatsoever objectionable in this book, and quite a bit to praise. I think Mrs. Rice is on the right path.

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Hello,

I haven't read the book, however I tend to strongly disagree with holders of "low" Christology, who approach the mystery of Christ as that of a human being who, incidentally, happens to be God as well as human.

That being said, it is clear that the fullness of the divine knowledge would not "fit" into a human mind, not even Christ's.

It is therefore, somewhat straightforward to assume there is some sort of "selective access" from the attributes of the human nature of the Lord to the attributes of His divine nature.

It is a dogma of the Catholic Church that Christ has two wills, one divine and one human, on account of His two natures. I am not sure whether we do have an analogous doctrine about wills and the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity, but regardless of whether there is one divine will (which is what I would assume) or three distinct ones, it is clear that the distinction could only be in the act of willing, but not in the object of the will.

If we accept that this "selective access" is purely an act of the divine will, then it must follow that what the Father wills, also the Son and the Holy Spirit will.

I would therefore take some distance from this seemingly passive role of Our Lord suggested in the previous posts.

An important aspect of the mystery of the Incarnation is that Our Lord voluntarily emptied Himself of His divine attributes in order to assume our human nature. I fail to see why this eminently active "decision" (lacking a better word to describe it) would become passive after the Incarnation.

What do you think?

Shalom,
Memo

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Memo,

Without saying anything about the rest of your post (the bulk of which I think I agree with), I'll answer one of your concerns:
Quote
It is a dogma of the Catholic Church that Christ has two wills, one divine and one human, on account of His two natures. I am not sure whether we do have an analogous doctrine about wills and the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity.
Yes, the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity have one will. The principle is basically something like this: one nature, one will. This is precisely why the Incarnate Christ has two (he has a human and a divine nature, and thus a human and a divine will) and the Three Person of the Holy Trinity have one (they are consubstantial, of one nature).

God bless,
Jason

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Quote
Originally posted by Memo Rodriguez:
An important aspect of the mystery of the Incarnation is that Our Lord voluntarily emptied Himself of His divine attributes in order to assume our human nature. I fail to see why this eminently active "decision" (lacking a better word to describe it) would become passive after the Incarnation.

What do you think?

Shalom,
Memo
But didn't He willingly become passive after the Incarnation? example, when He prayed that this cup might pass from Him, but then added, "Not my will, but Thine, be done"? Wasn't His entire life a willing submission to the will of His Father? Would His childhood have been any different?

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But obviously not everything in the Divine Mind was accessible to Christ's human mind: He Himself said that He did not know the hour of the end of the world.
I tend to think that He possessed an intuitive knowledge and vision of the Father at all times, but this was not always accessible his human nature.

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She really slams the "search for the historical Jesus" scholars and shows how much of the skeptical research of the last couple of centuries is completely biased against Christianity. And about how the death of her husband, an atheist, helped her find Christ again.
Break open the jar what kinda things does she say about historical criticism? I love when writers get into this stuff like C.S. Lewis and his bleats wink


"We love, because he first loved us"--1 John 4:19
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Not sure how to take your question, Myles - what do you mean, "bleats"??

(and btw, I sure hope someone else will actually read the book so we can have a real discussion about it! wink )

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Hi,

Quote
But didn't He willingly become passive after the Incarnation?
Did He?

I would suggest His constant submission and obedience to His Father was an active, conscious decision every instant of His life.

Shalom,
Memo

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Quote
Originally posted by Memo Rodriguez:
Hi,

Quote
But didn't He [b]willingly become passive after the Incarnation?
Did He?

I would suggest His constant submission and obedience to His Father was an active, conscious decision every instant of His life.

Shalom,
Memo [/b]
Aren't we saying the same thing? If He willed to submit to the will of His Father, why would that preclude allowing His Father to lovingly care for and protect Him during His childhood?

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She may very well be on the right path as Theist suggests but that doesn`t mean she still doesn`t have quite a road travel, particularly if she suggests any confusion/ignorance Jesus may have had regarding His identity. The problem still is as other posters suggested previously is that because of her reputation she bears a great responsibility in all her writings even if they are fiction as there are many gullible enough to put too much theological credence into her novels. Just my two cents anyway.

A Sister In Christ

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I find it both intriguing and delightful that Anne has "seen the light". I noticed that the local library here has a copy on its new books shelf, and believe me, I'm apt to read this work. yes, I have read Anne's other works, and that may be a case of scandal for some. I did go through a phase of "Christian Goth", and anything noir will attract my eyes(Oh, as far as Goth is concerned, I still wear black a lot, I guess it fits my personality), so Anne's Vampire Chronicles have been in my hands.
In all fairness, I have not read her latest, but I will note the following: the OSV had a recent article of Anne Rice's return (and I do hope it's for real, I will give the benefit of a hope {and not a doubt}) to Christ Jesus. I also read a recent an article in a recent issue of Christian Century where it seems that she used material (my analysis) that appears in certain pseudopigraphical works like where Jesus makes birds out of clay, etc. I assume that the writer of that article has read Anne's book, hence, the reference. I wonder what Christianity Today has to say, I guess I can find out. I don't understand what one poster here meant when he mentioned C.S.Lewis and "his bleats", perhaps he can clarify.
still, I have a number of questions, and I want to believe with all of my being that Anne Rice has returned. I hope she doesn't see this all as a phase before she turns somewhere else, such as the likes of Madonna and Jane Fonda for intellectual and spirtual stimulation.
Much Love,
Jonn

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For Heaven's sake, she is a writer and it is both her right and her talent to compose fictional works.

There aren'y any rules saying that her fictional storylines have to be in line with Catholic Teaching, even if she is a Catholic.

I say, whatever, good for her! It's obviously better than her earlier works.

Logos Teen

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The bleats of C.S. Lewis are included in an essay he wrote criticisng modern biblical criticism. Since Ms Rice was said to have done the same I was looking to hear something about her perspective on the topic as a writer herself.


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Come on all, let's look a little deeper.

I an intrigued as to this new novel, I think I might read it.

It is a work of fiction, however, that does not mean that there is no responsibility or rules. A story should tell the Truth, fiction or not.

The interesting topic though, seems to be how Rice handles Christ. It does not appear thet she is denying the Divinity of Christ or His human nature.

It seems that she is trying, in her fictional work, to portray Christ.
It does not seem, from what is posted here, that she is trying to say something Theologically profound, but to write a fictional work that tells the Truth.

I agree though, this is touchy matter, writes should proceed with caution when they venture here.

Dan Brown could not do it.

Maybe Anne Rice has.

What I am pointing oput is that it seems that Anne Rice is not trying to 're-write' the early years of Christ.

It spunds top me like a modern work of fiction about the early life of Christ.

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Originally posted by Laka Ya Rabb:
Dan Brown could not do it.

Maybe Anne Rice has.
She is definitely doing it from a completely opposite viewpoint than Dan Brown - she does seem to be doing this in an effort to lift Christ up, not tear Him down.

A nice change of pace these days ... wink

Will look forward to your comments once you've read the book, Laka Ya Rabb! smile

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By the way, here is a link to a review of the book from Belief.net [beliefnet.org] , which includes a link where you can read an excerpt of the novel.

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Theist Gal,

I almost ordered the book today, but with school, I though thought it prudent to wait until Thanksgiving break to pick it up.

I am curious to know, how does Anne Rice's view of homosexuality factor into her new novel?

She brought it up on her website, that's why I ask.

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Originally posted by Laka Ya Rabb:
Theist Gal,

I almost ordered the book today, but with school, I though thought it prudent to wait until Thanksgiving break to pick it up.

I am curious to know, how does Anne Rice's view of homosexuality factor into her new novel?

She brought it up on her website, that's why I ask.
good point. the Vampire Chronicles do have a homoerotic element, to be sure. however, I have noticed that there seem to be as many viewpoints on homosexuality as there are Christians, Church pronouncements withstanding.
Much Love,
Jonn

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Well, since her son, Christopher Rice, is gay, I'm sure that is a difficult area for her.

However, re: the Vampire Chronicles et al, she has stated emphatically that she will never write "that kind" of novel again ...

Bottom line is, I think she's doing the best she can and I'm sure that, like all new converts, she'll benefit from our prayers and support. smile

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I'm glade that we finally can agree on something. many prayers for Anne.
Much Love,
Jonn

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