www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall churgoing attire

The thread on priests and cassocks got me thinking about this. I've noticed that Byz and RC folks dress very, very,very casual when attending services and I wondered if this has always been the case or not and what the thinking is behind this.

In my culture there's still a difference between street clothes and church clothes that is strongly adhered to by even the most lax, freespirited person in our culture. Even the poorest person wears their one and only dress shirt and dress shoes to church every Sunday. It is seen as a mark of respect for the house of God.

That is why I was so shocked to see such casual dress in RC and EC churches, but I'm sure no disrespect is intended.

Peace

I have noticed that in East Tennessee, the people dress casually in the liturgical churches, and more formally in the non-liturgical churches. I have no idea why this is the case.

Indigo,

It's difficult to know what the intention of the sloppy and immodest dressers are. If there is a link between action and intention I'd guess one would have to say that immodesty is intentional. But I do not know. I'm with you. We dress up to the level of respect we have for the host. In that case many of our people do not respect God very much. It is very sad.

Dan L

Dear indigo,

Growing up in CA in the 60's dress for RC church for male adults at my parish was suit and tie for men, dress pants, shoes and shirt for boys and dresses for ladies young and old. Much more formal than my parish today.

There no official church rules on dress for Mass that I know of. Rarely, at my parish a priest will state the inappropriateness of women wearing cocktail dresses to Mass.

My take on the casual dress is this: It is a fuction of our culture. At my work dress is casual. Dress at the mall is casual. Dress for travel is now casual. In the old days people dresssed semi-formal for travel. Dress at church, like it or not, is the dress found in most settings of every day life.

As you said respect should be the underlying principal in what to wear to Mass. I don't think most people think about that when dressing for Mass.

My pet peeve is men wearing shorts to Mass. However, it's not my place to judge them about what they wear.

Christ is our peace.

Paul

Our priest has said many times, if these same folks were going to a formal ball or celebration appropriate dress would not be in question. Why do we not give atleast the same respect to God in the way we dress. I was told long ago that the way one dresses is a sign of your attitude and outlook on life. I think this is true. Same goes for when one shows up for church. The late comers would not be caught dead showing up late for a movie or concert or a ball game. Why is it that they somehow show up late, on a consistent manner, for the most important service on earth?

Go figure.

JoeS

So I am a little crazy. When I attend Liturgy in an Eastern church I put on my Sunday finest clothes. When I attend RC mass i must admit I dress rather carelessly. Most of the time in jean but never in shorts.
I guess when I was a child we put on our Sunday finest for Liturgy in either the byzantine or orthodox church we attended. So I guess it made an impression on me.

Throughout my life I've split my own worship practices pretty much 50/50 between the Byzantine Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church. My current observation is that there is, in general, more "formality" seen in the worshippers' attire in the Byzantine Catholic Church than there is in our Roman counterparts. This was not the case years ago (like the 60's), where, relying on my feeble memory, I seem to recall more or less equal levels of formality during both Eucharistic Celebrations.

If pressed to venture a guess as to why I think the current differences exist, I would have to say that I believe the more "informal" nature of the Novus Ordo Mass has trickled down through the congregation and has manifest itself in the perception that a more relaxed dress code is now acceptable.

Before I'm flamed, let me say that I am in no way jumping aboard the current bandwagon that blames many of today's liturgical abuses in the RC Church on Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass... people are still individually responsible for how they themselves dress for Church. Period. It seems to me, however, that the "sacredness" of the ritual one is attending may play a part in how one chooses to dress.

Of course, rituals aside, a stronger emphasis by the Church on why we attend in the first place and in Who's Presence we are actually presenting ourselves would probably go a long ways toward influencing our choice of attire.

a pilgrim

I have no problem with jeans as long as they are clean and don't have holes in them. It's clothing that is indecent that gives me concern. I mean, come on, bare midriffs at Mass! The former pastor of 38 years - may his memory be eternal - at the RC church where I play used to meet some tourist ladies at the door and tell them they didn't have enough clothes on to come into church. His logic was the old argument of being an occasion of sin to others. I think the culture has more to do with dressing indecently than anything. As a school teacher, I know the principal would send girls home for bare midriffs, and the girls would come back with their moms after changing clothes. You guessed it - the mom's had bare midriffs, tatoos, body piercings, etc. I hate to say it, but are we just living in a trashy culture?

Back in Mexico, people do not usually dress up to go to Church. When they do so, it is not because of the Church-going itself, but rather because of a special occassion (weddings, funerals, first Communions, etc.).

People more or less care about clean and modest dressing, but not at all about elegant dressing.

My own personal criteria is, besides cleaness and modesty, comfort. I do not like being distracted by the neck of my shirt or by a coat I need to put on and off or by unconfortable shoes.

If some day you happen to attend Mass with me, you will most likely see me in jeans, sandals and short-sleeved shirt (not tucked inside the jeans). By no means the finest from my guardrobe, but surely what I like the most and feel most confortable in.

Not that it matters either way, God sees me as naked as He created me.

Shalom,
Memo.

I think Paul hit the nail on the head. People seem to dress for what they're going to be doing after church rather than dressing for church. I can understand casual dress as long as it is tasteful dress. I don't dress to the nines myself, except for Christmas and Easter or a wedding or funeral.

I recall seeing a sign at the door of a local Greek Orthodox church which read something like this: "Please remember that this is a sacred place and appropriate dress is required. Please, no shorts, tennis shoes, jeans, or shirts without collars". Way to go. Probably at most
Masses half of the congregation would have to leave if this was enforced. We've lost a sense for the sacred.

The pastor of my church makes a plea for proper attire in the bulletin and from the pulpit a few times a year.

Bill

Dear Brethren,

As far back as the 1950's, my mother remembers her RC girlfriends wearing slacks to Mass. The reason was that they would often attend Mass in the middle of the day, or on a weekday morning before going elsewhere, and couldn't go home to change. It didn't matter what you were wearing, the whole idea in those days, and I believe also today, was and is, to go to Mass, period.

If I find myself in NYC for something, and St. Pat's is close by, I will go in and stay for the Mass. Since I live one hour away, I obviously don't have time to go home and change. The same casualness generally holds true for an Orthodox supplication service or vespers at my own church. Ofcourse, appropriateness of dress should always be in order.

These days, even the Archbishop of Greece is telling youth to go to church dressed as they are, in jeans. Again, the whole idea is that they actually GO, rather than not go as has been the trend.. (because traditionally one had to be better dressed for church in Mediterranean countries).

Where I think that we will all agree, is that on Sunday morning, when one is attending Liturgy or Mass, Sunday should be a special day, and therefore, a little 'dressing up' is in order. In the Greek Orthodox Church, this is the norm for Sundays. The specialness of dressing up on Sundays, (as well as the hunger factor of getting out at after 12 noon) also lends itself nicely to having a nice meal out after church with one's children, parents, loved ones, and/or friends. Sundays remain very traditionally special days for the Greek Orthodox.

Alice

Dear Alice,

I hope you didn't misread my post. My "Way to Go", should have been "Way to go!". I liked the sign.

I also agree with you, better IN church in jeans than not in church at all.

Bill

Dear Bill,

I did not misread your intent, but thanks for caring enough to clarify!

My philosophy about this thread in a nutshell is: if you are attending a Liturgy, service, or Mass other than on Sunday mornings, go as you are, so long as it is appropriate.

If you are attending a Liturgy or Mass on Sunday Morning, remember that it is the glorious day of the Resurrection, almost like Easter Day, so wake up, rejoice that it is not a work day, dress up a bit more, and make the day the special and holy one that it is...the Sabbath which God gave us!

In Christ,
Alice

I wear slacks and dress shirts to the RC masses for which I play on Sunday mornings. I never wear ties because the organ loft is hot as Hades - God's way of punishing me for playing a Latin Rite instrument, I guess - LOL But I do see some who are not dressed decently, and that always seems inappropriate. I have no problem as long as people wear things that are clean and modest. I observed one "lady" who was wearing a T-shirt that read, "I've been spotted giving blood," which was covered in Dalmation spots. It was far too tight as were her too short shorts. She fidgeted, scratched her neck, looked around and in general ignored the Mass. At the peace greeting, she came alive and wandered around all over the place shaking hands with people. Then she gulped down the Body of Christ and left - I suppose because she had gotten her touchy-feely fix for the day. Now it just seems to me that something is not right with things like that.

Dear ByzanTN,

You know, I just don't think that women (or men) like that, (and God forgive me if I am being judgemental) have any SELF respect. That is really trashy stuff which you have described.

Fortunately, here in New York, generally, there is somewhat more decorum. On the other hand....
I was in affluent Westport, Ct. last week, to do an errand, and overheard an older, very well dressed, Jewish woman complaining how on the Jewish New Year, there were young beautiful teenage girls wearing midriffs and skirts that weren't much bigger than a bandaid in the temple for Holy Day services. She went on to qualify that it wasn't that she was 'old fashioned' but that these girls, beautiful though they were, just weren't dressed appropriately for temple. She was shocked, and rightfully so!

It is curious how little self respect exists in society..and certainly dress is an outward manifestation of that. Another bit of trivia: until the mid 1960's Americans were probably one of the best and most formally dressed people on earth. Just watch an old rerun of Bewitched, Leave it to Beaver, or 'I dream of Jeanie'. Parents dressed up to meet with their children's teachers, to buy cars, and to have dinner at each other's houses...white gloves, dresses and all! One more bit of trivia: Shorts were not allowed to be worn in Manhattan BY LAW in the 1950's.

Personally, I think that their world was calmer and happier. I certainly remember the first eight years of my life being that way. I am sure that if anyone showed 'the future life style of Americans' to anyone then, they wouldn't want it!

In Christ,
Alice