www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New Russian Catholic parish being created

Sorry if I missed this point, but -- WHO in that community (aside from the priest, who I would have assumed, as a pastor of a Ruthenian parish was a clergyman of the Eparchy of Van Nuys / Pittsburgh Metropolia) is actually a Russian Greek Catholic? Anyone at all?

Seems like a convenient way to "get your own way" by joining a jurisdiction without a hierarchy. I mean, does the local Latin bishop know anything about Byzantine Christianity to guide or meddle with this fledgling community one way or another? I doubt it...

Diak, you hit the nail on the head. Why is it so easy for other jurisdictions to write good working English text and adapt them easily to the original music? Why do other jurisdictions have a real liturgical commission (that actually has laity and cantors)? Because they all made a real effort to translate books that work well in parishes. It seems that the Ruthenian Metropolia has a hard time grasping this concept!

Ung-Certez

FYI Lemko:

http://www.eparchy-of-van-nuys.org/docs/newsletter_0001.html

I can't see that the other Russian Catholic communities have been contaminated by being under the local Roman Ordinary.

One fact I do know is that the Denver RC diocese helps the Catholic bishop of Siberia, Bishop Werth with fundraising. Bishop Werth is responsable for the Russian Orthodox in Communion with the Holy See as well as the Roman Catholics in Siberia.

If there were not popular support and a desire for this, then "half the parish would not have left to join the new community".

This makes no sense to me whatsoever. A "Byzantine Catholic priest" of a Latin see is a complete non-sequitur.

I, for one, was especially pleased to see that the new Russian Catholic church is under the protection of St. Elizabeth Feodorovna. Her life, and particularly her death, can be an inspiration to us all. If I remember correctly, I read in one of her biographies that after she and a number of other collateral Romanov relatives were thrown down the mine shaft to kill them, the local people who crept near the opening over the next few days reported that they heard hymns being sung. And when the White forces later retrieved the bodies, it was found that St Elizabeth, herself injured, had bandaged one of the other wounded, caring for him even in the extremity of the moment.

St Elizabeth the New Martyr, pray unto God for us!

djs - If he is the same Clement who was the special disciple of St. Paul while very young, then he was a Phillipian - not Roman. If this is the case, he probably knew Greek and Aramaic far better than Latin.

Woody, well said. May Saint Elizabeth protect the community named for her through her intercessions.

On a lighter note:

This unfortunate split did give rise to a touching
reconciliation of sorts.

If you scroll down and read the comments on the blog:
http://www.swimmingthetiber.blogspot.com/
you will see a formerly familiar juxtaposition. Serge and Konrad (Kurt) together again, complete with "graceophile transritualists".
:p

Well, this thread certainly continues to be provocative. Since there are less than a handful of Russian Catholic parishes in North America, it's a bit startling to see how threatening some people find the very idea - now why is that, I wonder? Re-reading the original posting, I notice that one "reason" for people to be dis-satisfied with Father Chrysostom in his previous parish was his habit of chanting the Paschal Troparion in Greek as well as in Church-Slavonic in English. That's also puzzling as a cause of dis-satisfaction; chanting the Paschal Troparion in Greek is commonly found in many Ukrainian Catholic parishes (and can be heard on the lovely recording of Paschal Matins from Saint Barbara's Church in Vienna). Anyway, again Mnogaia Lieta and Spasi, Khriste Bozhe to Father Chrysostom and his flock. Would the begrudgers please take aim at somebody else for a change? Or shall we start discussing just why the begrudgers feel threatened? Incognitus

Who's threatened? Why would any Byzantine Catholics feel threatened or weep over the loss of people who were not and are not Byzantine Catholic in the first place? They will have a place suitable for their worship needs/choices and Holy Protection can hopefully recover some semblance of a normal parochial life.

The only thing truly troubling is the situation that caused the rupture. Where was the (Ruthenian, not the Latin) bishop in all this?

The author of the blog was a Byzantine Catholic and I'm sure many of the people who will be leaving to go to the new parish are also Byzantine Catholics. But, then, they're converts...so I guess they don't count.

Reminds me of the advice I got once when I inquired as to how to proceed on getting mission status. Someone recommended: `It doesn't hurt to have a traditional Rusyn name as one of the families that petitions for the mission.' This didn't come from the Eparchy...it was just some advice from a friend who has been around for awhile.

When will our Church get over the idea that one is not really a Ruthenian Catholic unless one can trace one's heritage to Central/Eastern Europe?

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com
Canonical member of the Ruthenian Church

Hi Gang!

Frank C wrote:"...Why do we have to hire a Roman Catholic to re-write our chant? We have plenty of talented cantors who can do this if our bishops would just have respect for their talents and not always consider Roman Catholics to be better..."

Whatever happened to Jerry Jumba and all the tapes and music that he put together before he was "removed" by the State Troopers??

Has all this been "trashed" or what????

Curious minds want to know....

mark

I was waiting for the return of that one!!!!!!!

I do feel some understanding for the 'ethnic' parishioners. They are living their tradition as they know it, and what they see as a bunch of people who learned about Orthodoxy from a book come in and tell them they are doing everything wrong (making some mistakes themselves -- candles in sand is not an Eastern tradition -- you see it all over Italy and other western nations. The candles stands is less a custom of latin countries than countries with meddling fire insurance companies!).

Two parishes seems a totally fair and pastoral response. Communities have their own ethos and one can give that respect.

We Orthodox are (well, except for me here an dmaybe I should shut my mouth) outside this debate. We don't have a multiritual church, so this is a little hard to understand for us.

Axios

Ung,

The Carpatho-Russians recently published a nice liturgical text with music. Many of their interpretations of the chant reflect the Slovak Greek Catholic dialect, one that I remember growing up singing. You might want to check them out.

Joe

What is a "Slovak Greek Catholic dialect"? I was complimenting the ACROGC Diocese on the well-preserved use of Prostopinije, they seem to not have a problem with the music. We (Ruthenian Metropolia) could learn a lot form their work.

Ung-Certez