www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New Russian Catholic parish being created

Dear Dr John,
Are you sure there are no Russians involved?

I am not even certain of the nationality of this Father Frank. And I cannot tell who his ordinary is.

I am not saying your contention is flat out wrong, I just don't know how you came to that conclusion.

My take on it is that the Archdiocese of Denver decided to erect a mission to the Russians of Denver. There may have been a petition for it, who knows? Father Frank might have been unhappy in the post he was serving and he became available. It happens, this position opened up (maybe a little more money) he didn't have to leave an area he had become familiar with. Big deal.

Father Frank might belong to an order or a monastery, if anyone knows more about it I'd like to know because I'm curious.

As tempting as a conspiracy theory is to play out, our little congregations are not worth fighting over, sometimes they're so flakey they drive people out.

I know that my own comments are highly speculative too, but I do not suspect any malice on the part of anyone involved.

Michael

There may be more to the story than what the first post's link led us to believe.

Let us pray for the Denver parish as it resumes its life starting a new chapter as well as the Eparchy of Van Nuys.

Let's also pray for Fr. Frank and his family as he moves on once again.

Someday, we will all be in heaven (hopefully) singing the same melodies - and on key!

Joe Thur

Dr. John,

At least they won't call themselves Carpatho-Russians.

Cheers! Bottoms up!

Joe

As to nationality, my wag would be that Fr Frank is of German descent, and I believe a cradle Lutheran from the PA Fatherland , and unless his wife and children gave him permission, he does not belong to a monastery.

Fr Frank is a former Orthodox priest who became a Roman Catholic priest. With the permission of his Ordinary, the Archbishop of Denver, Fr Frank was the administrator of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic parish of Holy Protection in Denver. He was not incardinated for the Eparchy of Van Nuys. Fr Frank and his wife are members of the faculty at the archdiocesan seminary in Denver.

Here is an article written by Fr. Chrysostom Frank on Orthodox-Catholic relations:

http://praiseofglory.com/frchrysostom.htm

The web-page states that it was published in Pro Ecclesia. A Journal of Catholic and Evangelical Theology (Vol 7, Winter 1998, number 1).

He can be contacted via the Archdioces of Denver:

http://www.archden.org/cpc/_emails_employees.htm

Fr. Frank's history is public knowledge as this webpage explains (see down below in the 'More About Us' section):

http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch00758?frame=N

Also here (see 'History of the Society of St Nicholas'):

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/stanmer/182/society.htm

Joe

After having a unique privilege of worshiping in a Russian Catholic Byzantine commumity for about four months during my college years, the Denver project retains my full support.

When I look back I do not miss the Ukrainian Cathedral in Paris (St. Vladimir le Grand) or the Melkite parish (St. Julien le Pauvre, with it's 3pm liturgy for guys that stayed out all night). I miss the Russian Catholic Chapel Sainte Trinite.

I do not see this as an occurance of Russophilia. I think the main reasons for this new community is ritual matters.

These individuals who are forming this community have the right to worship in a pure Byzantine rite, not a hybred or mixed ritual. Isn't this what Vatican II promised them???

What is so wrong with these people creating a place to worship GOD ? It is their lives temporally and spiritually. For me at least the "temporal" clock is ticking a little bit faster than it used to. Why should anyone sit around and wait for the mountain come to them?

With Best Wishes,
Stefan

Didn't Jerry Jumba become the choir director of one of the ACROD parishes near Pittsburgh?

Cantor, not choir director. And that "project" is over... :rolleyes:

But he did improve the singing in that parish 100%...

This Denver "Russian" thing makes me nervous. I am very happy that there is going to be a situation for prayer.

I worry, however, if that which the Orthodox believe us to be doing is actually being done here. That is: Roman Catholics becoming externally Orthodox with the result that Orthodox might be 'misled' into Catholicism.

I make a HUGE distinction when this situation happens with cradle Byzantines - it may be "sheep stealing" or "seducing", but it's not being something that you are not.

SCARY!

Blessings!

From "Metanoia Ministries" we have this:

- - - - - - -

FROM WEST TO EAST AND BACK AGAIN:

The story of Fr. Chrysostom Frank's journey to The Catholic faith

Now based in the United States, Fr. Chrysostom Frank was head of the department of Church History at U.N.I.S.A. (University of South Africa) during the time that this interview was filmed (1998).

Fr. Frank was raised a Presbyterian. He recounts his long and fascinating journey through Lutheranism and Orthodoxy until his eventual embrace of the Catholic faith. Covering themes such as the liturgy, the papacy, orthodoxy, ecumenism, inculturation and many others, Fr. Frank draws much of his inspiration from the riches of the orthodox tradition. His newfound love for the Catholic faith is striking and his insights will be of great benefit to many.

1 video tape: R79.00 (running time: 76 minutes)

http://www.icon.co.za/~host/metanoia/catalogue/Testimonies.htm

Frank,

If as you indicate that " No one can even tell if the cantor is singing in English or Slavonic." did you understand the slavonic when it was sung originally? I would take that to be a complement to the setting of the english to prostopinije melodies, which is a task given the syllabic differences between the two languages.

Personally, I hope such a petition does NOT succeed, since it is based on a rather biased personal precept of certain individuals. If the parish truly feels that the cantor should go, who will replace him? will the replacement be better, or will he be 'recalled' at the whim of the parish until a cantor that suits them is found.

Not everyone in my parish appreciates my style of cantoring, those who don't tend to be more vocal than those who do. I generally don't let it worry me now.

People may be leaving for reasons other than the cantoring.......

Steve

--Medved wrote: Whatever happened to Jerry Jumba and all the tapes and music that he put together before he was "removed" by the State Troopers?? Has all this been "trashed" or what????--

I think that the new music is a cleaned up version of Professor Jumba�s. Both are very difficult to sing.

--Steve wrote: If as you indicate that " No one can even tell if the cantor is singing in English or Slavonic." did you understand the slavonic when it was sung originally? I would take that to be a complement to the setting of the english to prostopinije melodies, which is a task given the syllabic differences between the two languages.--

When Fred Petro and other cantors cantored in Slavonic I was to be able to understand every syllable (even though I do not understand much Slavonic). He was very easy to follow. With this new junk I cannot understand a word of what is being sung.

How can anyone consider a setting to be good when no one can understand what is being sung?

Everyone,

I'm a little concerned about the tone of this thread. In particular, some of the comments made about church music are off topic and are uncharitable.

I am very familiar with the new music, have sung it many times, and never had any trouble with it. Whether or not you personally like it, to characterize it as "junk" is being uncharitable to those individuals who worked very hard to assemble it. In any case, this is not the correct thread to discuss music, so I recommend taking the discussion to a different thread.

Thanks,
Anthony
Moderator

If Dr. John is worried about these new Byzantines being wannabe Russians, perhaps he should take a look at the Eparchy of Van Nuys and the makeup of the clergy and laity of said Eparchy. What you will find is a mixed bag as far as ethnic background is concerned-it should be pretty obvious that the Western United States isn't like the Northeast, where there are oldline Carpatho-Rusyn bastions. Since when does one have to be of a specific ethnicity in order to appreciate that particular ethnic groups "take" on Christianity, whether or not its Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, etc.

As a comaparison, look at the OCA's Diocese of San Francisco and the West. Since their heritiage is Great Russian, even their converts and cradle Orthodox, few of which (except in California) were even born in Russia, have a Great Russian take on Orthodox spirituality. Would you (Dr. John) make them give that up? Canonically, Eastern Christianity came to the West Coast through the Russians in San Francicso, and I don't see the problem in trying to emulate the OCA in this regard, especially since I'll bet the house that Bishop Tikhon's diocese is growing a heck of a lot faster than Bishop William's Eparchy.

BTW, Fr. Frank was a former OCA priest, who WASN'T born of Carpatho-Rusyn parents in Pennsylvania. Therefore, what's wrong with starting a Russian Catholic mission? Also, who said that they were going to "sheep steal" among the Byzantine and RC's in Denver? In case you didn't know, there are plenty of Protestants, unchurched and non-Christians who live in the Denver metropolitan area.

Just my observations,

O.S.