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OK OK

And now to put the cat among the pigeons

Martial Arts on horseback [bajutsu.com]


And yes - I have seen the training for this - very interesting it was too.

This particular guy - Stany I mean , has also done training courses for the Mounted Police in various countries too

Has anyone tried Tai Chi? I strength train, but as a musician, any martial arts involving falls are out of the question. My former organ professor and I have both put away our bicycles as too risky. I had heard about Tai Chi as a means to develop flexibility and balance - important in us older folks. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Charles - tried Alexander technique ?

Used by Musicians over here a lot

Dr.,

I've seen Royce Gracie fight on UFC films. He could and did beat people nearly twice his size in very short time.

But, I had one disappointment with your thread. At first reading I thought your title said "marital" arts. I was a little disappointed.

CDL

"But, I had one disappointment with your thread. At first reading I thought your title said "marital" arts. I was a little disappointed."

Too funny! That's kind of like the current interest in "some" sex marriages.

I persoanlly avoid such adaptations. They are not of a discipline that the church has established for us. You want to lose weight, fast as prescribed by the Church, that is not only by abstinence but also with prayer. Having a hard time with that, try doing multiple prostrations and use the prayer of the heart otherwise known as the Jesus Prayer.

We always seem to be looking for something from outside, yet our faith and the Church has given us the tools to center our focus and discipline our bodies. Maybe we need to explore the true Christian "martial" art that has been a part of our tradition for centuries.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Originally posted by Our Lady's slave of love:

Quote

Charles - tried Alexander technique ?

Used by Musicians over here a lot

I will have to look into that. I am not familiar with it.

Father Anthony,

You raise a good point. I wonder, though, if it is sufficient for us all. The website Dr. Eric provided emphasized using one's knowledge only in self-defense. Does the church provide self-defense instruction for law enforcement agents, bouncers, bodyguards, women who are at risk of being raped due to demographics or geographics or profession, good kids who live in bad parts of town, or other people who will require self-defense knowledge in their lifetimes? I think there is a place for such training. Surely when this training is provided it is ideal to be from a Christian worldview. You raise the question of what that place is in the average person's life, though. For many people, it is nothing more than a fun sport and social club. I believe the focus of such a mentality was strongly criticized by the group Dr. Eric mentioned.

Dear Wondering,

Generally, most that pursue such outside of reasons of professional need as you listed do it for reasons to build themselves up or for fun and recreation. Most professions i.e. law enforcement, etc. provide their employees with mandatory training in self-defense techniques.

As for self-defense, I find it difficult that in most instances that no matter what is provided in training, most when confronted in a situation are unable to use it, due to most instances that the perpetrator uses the element of surprise and knowing that they have the advantage over their victim.

The premise behind most martial arts is to tone the body, and center the inner focus spiritually. The focus on meditation and discipline is prevalent in most.

I add most of the practices mentioned akin to things like many of the diets and fitness fads that we have seen come and go in the many years that have past. Our focus now a days seems to have trouble staying at one thing for any period of time.

I hold to my original premise, the church provides for us to do what we pay others to teach us. The only thing that these programs really do not instill in us, the spiritual life in Jesus Christ, and discipline us in the true spiritual fitness that we need that will lead us towards eternal life.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

I agree that at a McDojo (a black belt mill) the training is very inadequate for self defense purposes. The two systems I posted are not like a traditional karate school. These offer real time combat situations and try to make the scenarios as real as possible.

Inherent in most martial arts schools are gateways into eastern philosophy and religious practices. And I think that they pose a danger to those who are not formed in the Faith. That's why I posted on Gracie Jujitsu and Systema. Plus, the Church has given us everything we need to gain self discipline and virtue, we need not look elsewhere for them.

Having said that, is it a sin to train to defend one's family? Was it a sin to defend Constantinople, Antioch, or Jerusalem? I thought it was ok to learn to defend yourself.

God Bless You,

Dr. Eric

Dr Eric,

If you carefully read my posts, I never made any implication as to self-defense being sinful. You are apparently reading into something that is not there. I also stand by my assertion that these like most are just fads and only time will be able to prove that I am wrong.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

Sorry.

I misread. I think that these are fads and they are not perfect either. The truth is that most martial arts are prone to being fads. Ever since the US occupied Japan and we started with karate, then we occupied Korea and we got Tae Kwon Do. Then in the late 60s Bruce Lee brought Kung Fu to the white man and then made his own philosophy of martial arts based on western boxing, Korean kicking, chinese trapping and immobilizing, and Japanese and Western wrestling. And on and on and on.

Yes the latest are Krav Maga (an Israeli art from Japanese Jujitsu,) Brazilian Jujitsu, and now the Russian arts: Systema and Sambo.

Some of this might be a way to ape our fallen foes. We try to acquire what made them such great adversaries.

Another myth is that the Asian martial arts are ancient. They're not. Most are less that 400 years old. Tai Chi started in the late 1600s and Wing Chun Kung Fu, according to the most reliable data, only started in the early 1800s.

I think that there is still a streak of gnosticism hidden in the search for a more ancient... anything. Like the ancient peoples knew more than we do, they had hidden knowledge that would allow people to fly around like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It just doesn't happen like that. :rolleyes:

Dr. Eric

Dr. Eric,

Your post made me wonder what it is that is so attractive about the martial arts to our society. A few thoughts immediately came to me.

1) Racism. Studies show that the average American has a stereotype of Asians being hard workers, extremely intelligent, etc. Anything "oriental" is shrouded in mystery and considered wise. Like you said, they must possess some secret knowledge to the matrix of life.

2) New Age. Anything that is new but feigns to be old is good in today's society. People don't want to actually learn the realities of history, but want a pretty ("McDojo") spin put on it with some ancient hints to it so they can feel a connection to the past while having all the relativistic conveniences of today. A lack of grounding in the family and the community lead people to want roots while the modern push for all things new lead people to want to sever their roots. The middle ground is new age philosophies and newly built "antiqued" furniture.

3) Naturalism. People all over are wishing for how things use to be. They are growing their own food, purchasing from the farm, buying organic. People are reading labels, baking bread, and frequenting restaurants with "healthier" fare. Overall, the trend for organic foods, whole foods, health foods, and natural products is only increasing. All this in a fast paced, convenience oriented world. People want natural ways to live in life's hustle and bustle of machines. The martial arts provide strength training and aerobic exercise combined with a practical skill (self-defense) [which means it multi-tasks and is therefore worth the time and money] all without the roar of machinery. It is human interaction in a world that is often devoid of it. It relies on one's own abilities. I can see why this is attractive to the group of people who are returning to natural living.

4. Social interaction. In today's fast-paced world, time with one's friends and family must be scheduled. The martial arts are appealing because it gives a social network to children (and their families) and it also provides a bonding opportunity for children to work along-side their parents toward a goal.

I'm sure individual people have a number of other reasons, but these are the reasons that immediately stood out to me to explain their popularity. So, Fr. Anthony, I agree with you that the church provides alternatives to all these. It has the eastern spirituality, it has roots to antiquity while applying to the modern world, it encourages a return to a more natural state of living (including food-wise with the fasting from meat and dairy), and it provides a social network between families and within the family. Rather, I should say, it can do all these things. Those parishes which do not provide some sort of catechises or study group will never teach people about its theology or roots, those overcome with Latinizations will not be able to point to its eastern spirituality, those that do not have social activities will not provide a social connection, those which do not preach about the fasts will not encourage those with a drive to natural living. In short, if the church is not living out the fullness of the eastern tradition, it will not be able to compete with the alternatives people will seek out. The problem appears to me to be, are we fully living out our calling as eastern Christians? And if so, are we sharing it with others? Only then are we able to overcome the empty fads of today with the substance of an eternal message.

I agree that with all of your points except the one above. Modern methods of agriculture and animal husbandry are rife with potential health disasters. Pesticides and hormones in our food can and do make people less healthy. Many of our modern idiopathic diseases like lupus and fibromyalgia were unknown until lately. And the modern methods of food production may have something to do with it. And, no there haven't been any studies to prove it yet. So right now it's just a theory. But there are no studies on whether or not surgery works either. Except arthroscopic knee surgery, they found that it's not better than sham surgery.

I'd have to say that natural foods and exercises are the best way to stay healthy and prevent disease. So I don't think that it is nostalgia.

Dr. Eric,

I did not argue otherwise, but just pointed out that there is a trend for more natural living which is evident in the US and carries with it common correlations. People who are living more naturally are more likely to have certain diets, to wear certain clothing fabrics, to drive certain cars, to share certain hobbies, to take certain supplements, and so on. Entire firms are dedicated to figuring out those numbers to effectively market to them. This trend toward all things natural brings with it (correlatively speaking) a love for those exercise methods which are also "natural" and dependent one oneself, such as karate, yoga, tai chi, jujitso, and so on.