www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Update on Holy Trinity in Bridgeport, CT

AMEN Bob, AMEN!

This whole situation bothers me, as any one of our parishes can be next on the auction block with little notice.

Many, if not ALL of our ancestors came to this country with little more than the shirts on their backs and the drive/desire to make a life here. We need to not lose this perspective. It CAN be done, Passaic or no Passaic.

I believe the parish in NJ that was supressed last year may have fallen apart, but the parish in Florida is alive and well, still producing a weekly bulletin on their active website. They have a new place of worship- having permission to share a Melkite(?) church building in their local area. The Slovak NY parish (St Elias?) stayed together for the most part and joined with another Eastern congregation, apparently active and happy. These are 3 of the 4 I believe were recently supressed by the current bishop. There was another earlier on in Southeastern PA, and the parish in Lopez, PA that lost their church to a fire and were not permitted to use their insurance $$ to rebuild. Are there more?

Perhaps Holy Trinity needs to name a few leaders and begin to map out a plan to keep the community together. Is this happening?

Sam

Not permitted to use their insurance dollars to rebuild?!?!!

Holy macarolli!

Originally posted by sam:
Perhaps Holy Trinity needs to name a few leaders and begin to map out a plan to keep the community together. Is this happening?


Yes, they are having the annual St. Nicholas feast day dinner together as a Parish family. Aproximately 50 people are expected to participate.

GREAT!!! Stick together!

Right! And they had a fulltime priest in residence who was more than willing to rebuild! All donations given to the parish for rebuilding had to be redirected to Bishop Pataki.

Does anyone know what has happened to that parish since?

Sam

The Lopez community doesn't have far to go to find people of their own worship tradition. There is an active OCA parish in Lopez. A good friend came from that church and is the Orthodox priest here in Altoona.

While I'm not one to advocate jumping ship from the Byzantine Catholic Church, I can't justify telling people that they are now "on their own" and leaving them to drift in the wind.

Maybe it's because, as a funeral director, I deal DAILY with people who come into my office and have been unchurched for reasons such as this (and for a library of others). The worst cases are those who want to have some sort of service, but before I can ask what they want they state emphatically "no clergy!"

But, lest any of you think that this a unique problem, I can tell you that misery loves company and you've got lots of that out there in lots of different Churches and ecclesial communities.

In Christ,

BOB

Bob,
I agree with you. Some situations are very sad indeed!

To use my favorite Titanic analogy-
Most of the lifeboats left to drift away on their own were eventually rescued by the Carpathian, weren't they? Lets hope our own abandoned people find their way home to perhaps the church they really do belong.
Sam

Yes, and four years earlier my Dido Michal traveled to America from Karpats'ka-Rus' on that very same liner, The Carpathian. I think our forefathers are shaking their heads in wonder when they look down from heaven and see what has happened to the Eastern Churches they established here in America with their blood, sweat and tears!

Ungcsertezs

THEY certainly had vision. When was it lost? What ARE the reasons for the near-death situation we find ourselves in today?

I believe the ethnic Galician/Ukrainian split was one reason, The Alexis Toth movement and the creation of the Johnstown Diocese after the trustee issue two more reasons.

Not to say these were wrong, but were WE mistaken in staying behind and believing we could ever have a real presence among the majority of Latin Catholics?

Our heirarchy spent YEARS trying to be Latin. That didn't work. Then we spent years trying to get rid of those Latinizations. We've spent the decades after the 1933 schism trying to 'identify our identity'. Three generations later we still don't know who we are and where we are headed as a Church. Our heirarchy bows to Rome and Latin ways. Rome could care less, and in light of the recent changes in Eastern Europe, we seem to be in the way of East/West unity. The so-called bridge seems to be an impediment.

Is now the time to get off the fence, get out of the way and choose East or West? Is the alternative watching our heirarchy slam our parish doors shut in our faces one by one by one, only to sell property, padding the retirement fund for when they are all out of a job?

Rambling on...

Sam

I have a growing love for our Eastern ways. I love Orthodox worship and praxis even more today than when we comverted almost seven years ago. At the same time I love our communion with the Bishop of Rome and think it is necessary to have relations with all of the Christian centers. Given these conditions I do not wish to depart from Eastern Catholicism.

Nevertheless, it seems more clear everyday that our Heirarchs either don't know what to do or are intentionally working to undermine the Church. For now I choose not to believe the latter. So what has to happen from my perspective is this:

Those who love this Church must gather as often as possible to gain insights from one another in how to foment a ground swell of movement that will move our Church and our bishops toward renewal and growth. Some of us are meeting regularly to pull that off. We will be holding some meetings in the near future to have such gatherings around the Eparchy of Parma and as we can around the country. If you are interested let us know who you are by contacting us on the website: www.byzantineevangelization.com [byzantineevangelization.com]

In the interim we need strategies for helping abused congregations to stay together and grow. This may mean through the formation of monastic communities or even mission Churches attached to other Eastern Catholic Churches.

CDL

I have one question: what is the limit to this type of abuse of faith communities? Don't you know silence in the face of evil empowers it, emboldens it, makes it more likely to broaden its scope and worsen its behaviour in order to see how far and how much it can get? Will Neville Chamberlain solutions always work? What if you're next?

Good question. I guess as long as the buck stops at a bishop's door, and a metropolitan asks to not be notified, and Rome has left us to our own devices, and no priest will stand up to him the abuse can be every bit as bad as the abuser decides- unless a) he leaves or b)we leave.
Attempts at reasonable human dialogue are futile, a la I am the bishop, end of discussion.


Sam

I personally think Andrew Pataki, knows full well what he is doing...he is too smart not to know...I think he is the wolf disguised as a shepherd...

There has been alot of discussion surrounding Rome...When I was younger I felt very much the same way...Rome simply did not care...I don't think that's the case...the problem is the Church structure...as long as Pataki, or any bishop for that matter holds their ground Rome can not remove them from their Eparchy or Diocese...The more I have thought about this the more I think to myself that Vatican II was really nothing more than show...Yes, one good thing that came out of it was the beginning of the Eastern Catholic Churches getting back to our Eastern Traditions...but lay involvement is only upheld based on the priest in the parish and the Bishop...HT, I'm sure along with others are clear examples of situations where laity involvement (or in HT's situation no lay involvement after years of complaint to the Eparchy, Metropolia, & Rome regarding this (except for 1 hand picked "Trustee" who signed blank checks)) is non-existant if the Bishop and priest want it that way there is no recourse...the laity who are the Church have no power, no rights, NOTHING...The Bishop is the Lord of his fifedom and nothing can change that...except lay involvement in reworking Canon Law (which I can not see happening)...The Pharisees run the show and set the rules...

So what happens when Pataki finally dies and someone with the heart of a Bishop John Boetan is put in place...that calms the waters for a brief period (20 years if we are lucky) and then a Nicholas Elko comes after that or a (I know I'll probably get crucified for this) Basil Tackacs making his "property grabs"...let's look at reality...we have not had a great track record with Bishops for the people in the history of the Ruthenian Church who were for the flock they serve (yes Dudick, Bilock & Kochisco were the exceptions)...the history has not been great and I don't see it getting better in the future...With Rome imposing bishops, they are utilizing top down management which has been unsuccessful...we need to really get back to our roots and have bishops chosen by the clergy and laity (God forbid) so they are of the people and for the people...

Update...the Holy Trinity Community had approximately 50 people attend a St. Nicholas day community potluck supper yesterday along with small gifts and candy for the children who were present...It was a great time...it was scheduled from 1-4...people began arriving at 12:20 and the last didn't leave until 7:00...along with plenty of food, there was community prayer, Christmas Caroling & more food...I know several people had digital cameras and I hope to get a place to post some pictures for anyone who would be interested.

Job,

It is the same old story, whether we're talking about implementing corrupted texts and music or railroading our faithful out of their parishes to make a fast buck. We(i.e. Ruthenian hierarchy) continue to be our own worst enemies!

Ungcsertezs

Why IS that? And why can't they be elected every four years, lol.
sam