www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall How Limbaugh convinced me not to vote for Bush

Dear Katie g,

Without a little more precision on "some time", it's hard to tell who is joking.

Here's a simple document from the Social Security Advisory Board, that outlines the status of the program and discusses various long-term fixes.

http://www.ssab.gov/NEW/Publications/Financing/actionshouldbetaken.pdf

Chart 8 makes it clear that the current progam - current tax rates, payments, retirement age, etc. - with no adjustments at all will hold - with no other input of funds requied whatsoever - through 2038. Not your idea of "some time", perhaps, but no joke. And relatively small adjustments, enacted early, will keep the program solvent through your retirement years. Whether it will be here or not is a political, not a financial problem.

SS is a social insurance which has been enormously successful in mitigating poverty among retired folks. It does not, however, provide for a good-living during retirement. Most people try to apply savings to annuity schemes to enhance their income during retirement - and aren't waiting for a government mandate to do this. The partial privatization scheme, by depleting revenue from the SS trust-fund, will shift the time frame forward. It will likely provide for benefits akin to SS, after a painfuil hiccup at a very bad time - the peak in retirement age population.

Here's a couple of other links with further discussion.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_10/004944.php
http://www.sscommonsense.org/

Actually Dan, ISTM the rest is where the difference is and the issues you cite, they are a wash. Did you miss Bush's comments in an interview last Tuesday.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-bush-civil-unions,0,4169546.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

Well one of the solutions is to not buy into the rah-rah political hype. In the last 4 years, America has become an incredibly partisan country. People get their news from sources that represent their political philosophy. It's no wonder that the Bush people think Kerry is the devil incarnate and the Kerry people think Bush is the stupidest man alive. They listen to those idiotic 'yelling at each other' cable news programs (yea for Jon Stewart for pointing out the stupidity in that!).

So one of the solutions is for us, the normal people, to stand firm and not buy into the cheerleader garbage. One way we can do that is to not use political propaganda like "cowardly" dems, etc.

The political game is used to manipulate us and to keep us ignorant (bread and circuses) so we shouldn't engage in it and we shouldn't buy into.

Another solution is not allow ourselves to be marginalized by being manipulated by social issues like abortion and gay marriage. Bush uses abortion and gay marriage to get us to vote for him but there is no real evidence that he's completely on our side on these issues. He's said that America isn't ready to overturn Roe v. Wade. The majority of SC justices were appointed by supposedly pro-life Republicans. He's refused to say that pro-life is a litmus test for him on SC justice nominations. He's for civil marriage.

The solution for us is to say these people that if they want our vote then they'd better deliver on the issues that are most important to us.

How are things going to change if we let ourselves be used like this? The next GOP candidate is likely to be pro-abortion. Why is that? Because they know that all the "good" Christians will support them no matter what because we've all been sufficiently brainwashed that the "Dems" are "evil."

Boy, are things perceived differently; I do not feel safer because of the Iraq debacle! World opinion is solidifying against the United States, militant Islam is being fueled, Iraq is in chaos. And while it is true that an exact count of dead Iraqis is impossible -American military thinkers realized after Vietnam that enemy body counts lead to domestic anti-war sentiment- I think it safe to guess that the Americans have by now killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did.
And if, dear Administrator, you think the Iraqi insurgency is made up primarily of Islamist militants I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that you may be interested in...And while I am aware that Rush Limbaugh is not an advisor to the American military, his opinions are uncannily attuned to the Republican party's. He has friends in high places.
There seems to be a great divide, in the country and on the forum, between those who take the Republicans at face value, who believe what they are told, and those of us who are sceptical and look at their actions.
As I said, I am a longtime prolifer; I number among my personal friends many who were prominent in the radical prolife rescue movement. If I believed Bush were sincerely prolife, and committed to the criminalization of abortion, and if I were convinced that he is unlikely to plunge us deeper and deeper into global catastrophe I might vote for him.
And to my ears "other than conventional weapons" suggests weapons of mass destruction of one sort or another. Of course, those are immoral, aren't they? I suppose in American hands they will be called "weapons of regretable destruction", sort of the way that "civilian deaths" became "collateral damage" in American parlance.
Daniel, narrowing his eyes

I fail to see how Iraq is in chaos. Pres. Bush said it was going to take 2 years to get things on track, and that there would be a lot of pain, suffering, and loss. I think it's amazing that only around 1000 US troops have died--it could have been tens of thousands of troops as in Vietnam.

As far as I am concerned, Iraq is developing just like Pres. Bush said it would when he announced the attack, and I am confident that things are shaping up. The terorrists' recent taking of an aid worker just cements in my mind that they don't care about their country, but only about power, if they are trying to kill the very people who are trying to help them (Aid workers).

I already cast my vote via absentee ballot: and I am proud that it was cast for President Bush, a fine man.

Anastasios

You don't see how Iraq is in chaos? http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3632

Dan,

That is perhaps the most ludicrous statement I have ever seen you post. As Eastern Christians, we come from a religious environment where it is a not uncommon practice to "bless" another with a prayer asking that God grant the person "many years". It is through God that life is prolonged and through Him that mankind is afforded the knowledge to understand, achieve, and implement the technological advances which make that possible. Yet, you have the audacity to suggest that this constitutes some perverse conspiratorial effort to empty the coffers of the Social Security system. Yes, the longer lives of today's Americans is a major factor in the increasing risk to the system's fiscal survivability, but that is not an enrichment scheme on the part of American medicine. Saints Cosmas and Damien were not the last and only unmercenary physicians and all of us, including many who post on this board, many of whom are not yet of Social Security eligibility age, have benefitted in survival, prolongation, and improved quality of life from the tipping of the scales that you decry. Some of us will live to Social Security eligibility because of those advances and those physicians.

Conspiracy theorists of the world strike again.

May God grant you many years, despite your disdain for His allowing man the capability to help you achieve it,

Neil

Chaos? Try here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6370525/site/newsweek/ This is not anybody's plan; it is not what Bush predicted.

The denial among Bush supporters is chilling. We have a reality-challeneged, ideology-driven administration with followers that have such undaunted faith in the leader. Habeas corpus, torture, disappeared - even so much talk here about getting rid of this nuisance, democracy. Chilling.

Of course this was not predicted either, and, if Pat Roberston can be believed, was discounted. The death toll is not like Viet Nam for two reasons: we haven't been in Iraq as long - yet; battlefield medicine is enormously improved with a consequent decline of three- to seven-fold in fatalities for many injuries.

We do have 25,000 casualties among US forces and and estimated 100,000 fatalities among Iraqis. How many casualties for this war in Iraq - not to be confused with the war on terror - is too many?

Do you really really think it does matter for whom you will vote?

Can you tell me where are the "different ideological alternatives" that the political parties offer to the people; beside the presence of two men who're both members of a dead worshiping secret society?

The democratic farse is merely an instrument of the establishment. While they keep you entertained with the political circus and feed you with the idea of a true competition... the rich corporations, the weapon makers and the massonic lodges back one or the two candidates to protect their privileges.

Within the democratic system all the candidates, government-loving politicians submit themselves to the establishment: godless internationalism, economic integration and free trade, "diverse" society for homosexuals and drugadicts.

Every year, millions of pounds of YOUR money are used to pay these "elections", your taxes, the future of your children; where there's not any possibility of changing the state of things.

I am proud to say that every time there's been an election in Mexico, I've kicked the Electoral house guys out of my place in case they want to install it there, and I have copied and distributed flyers for people to oppose elections and "democracy".

Neil and all other people so challenged,

You are the last person I would have expected to fall for the medical lobby's propaganda. All of us have an obligation to die before the age of 67. How will the next generation cope if we do not.

If we can believe the nonsense put forward by others about the SS system why not believe this?

BTW I have a great bridge to sell you if you want it.

Dan L

I can see that the hysterics are on the rise. It's about the same as it was during the height of the Viet Nam era. Armageddon was predicted then. It seems to me many of you are predicting the end of the world. Will that happen? Who knows. I'm not going to fret one way or the other. For the time being we are stuck with this system. It may or may not be the best system possible for our country. There may or may not be people behind the "curtain" actually pulling the strings. Who knows. These theories always circulate. Are we gullible to buy into them? I don't know.

In these times many otherwise sane people get a kind of megalomania about what they perceive as obvious truth. But most of us really know very very little and even if we did we wouldn't have the capacity nor the perspective to make the massive judgments most of us seem certain we could make.

Mr. Kerry might indeed make a better president that we think. Despite his traitorous past he might rise to the challenge and become an honest to goodness statesman and moral champion.

Mr. Bush might indeed be smarter than some of us think. He may well be doing now precisely what is necessary for the preservation of our country and for ending or at least curbing radical Islam.

Abortions might go down in number whichever man is elected. We might find a way to end murder as well as end the death penalty. It's not all dependent upon the President in any case and great things are often foisted upon men who otherwise would be less than noble.

And we might even find a way to save Social Security like all of us nearing the age when we could receive it would suddenly die. We might even find a way to help our senior citizens by altering our present social security system in ways that shock the political pundits.

The major news networks might actually report the news without a left wing slant, or am I dreaming?

All I know is that I will not for for a candidate who hates his own Church. I will not vote for a candidate who will do nothing to curb abortions. I will still pray for a monarchy.

Dan L

Neil,

you are WRONG! This has to be the most ludicrous statement Dan has ever posted:

Dan,

I'm not sure if you wrote this tongue-in-cheek. If not, then next time you visit one of the other parishes in your eparchy which may have a priest 67 years or older, please inform him of his "obligation".

You mention Armageddon and fault others for predicting the end of the world. Are you not aware of the cataclysmic and eschatological implications of the Red Sox's winning the World Series? For years, many in the sport's world predicted under what circumstances the Red Sox would win a World Series. Are you not aware of the signs and portents? The "curse" may be lifted, but the end is at hand.

Father Deacon,

You are right. I had not "connected the dots" as they say. :p I must hurry out to all of the priests I know over the age of 67 and warn them that unless they go to the holy mountain and await our Lord's return that all is lost. The battle of Armageddon will overwhelm us all. This deadline only gives me 10 more years. I think I shall retire.

Neil, Neil, please help me in my pursuit to let all of these older priests know their obligation.

Dan L

Some words of wisdom as we go to the polls:

"Never vote for the best candidate, vote for rhe one who will do the least harm." Frank Dane (It is hard even at that.)

"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." Fred Thompson, US Senator, lawyer, writer, and Actor.

CDL

It sure will be nice on Nov 3rd when we can get back to other topics instead of the venom spewed in these last posts.

JoeS