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Mar 25th, 2025
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Originally posted by Dr. Eric: Originally posted by Michael_Thoma:
[b] At least it isn't as bad as some places, where they call African players monkeys, and start Nazi salutes...  [/b]Here's what I am referring to, and it isn't an isolated incident: http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspcomunicados.asp?nid=211349FIFA: Disciplinary proceedings opened against Croatian Football Federation /noticias.info/ Zurich, 18 August 2006 - The FIFA Disciplinary Committee has today opened proceedings against the Croatian Football Federation following the behaviour of some Croatian fans during the international friendly between Italy and Croatia on Wednesday (16 August 2006). According to the pieces of information gathered to date, some Croatian fans formed a swastika and made the Nazi salute in the stands. This prompted the FIFA Disciplinary Committee to further examine this case, which could be a violation of Art. 55 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code regarding racism (see: http://www.FIFA.com/en/organisation/legal/chamber/0,1489,2,00.html). And: Fine for Nazi salute
March 11, 2005 - 10:14AM
Lazio striker Paolo Di Canio has been fined 10,000 euro ($A17,000) for the fascist-style salute he gave at the end of the Rome derby in January.
The Italian Football League also handed Lazio a fine for the same amount on Thursday after a hearing into the January 6 match against AS Roma at Rome's Olympic stadium.
Photographs of Di Canio giving the long-armed salute favoured by wartime dictators Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler flashed around the world after Lazio's 3-1 win.
Di Canio had denied there was any political meaning to his salute but the League's disciplinary commission ruled that the player's gesture had "immediately and unequivocally recalled a precise political ideology."
The League said players should not "engage in any gestures indicating any kind of political ideology...which could potentially provoke a violent reaction from fans."
- Reuters [ service.spiegel.de] Racism in Soccer
Player Silences German Racists With Hitler Salute
Mired in betting scandals, riven by infighting and alarmed by recent poor performances on the pitch, German soccer needs anything but more controversy in the few months remaining before it hosts the World Cup. But some recent cases of blatant racism are doing further damage to its image.
It started with a Hitler salute. Two eastern German soccer teams in the fourth division, FC Sachsen Leipzig and Hallesche FC, had just drawn 2-2 on March 25 in Halle, and the fans weren't happy.
Leipzig's Nigerian midfielder Adebowale Ogungbure was walking off the pitch when hooligans ran up to him, spat at him and called him "Dirty Nigger," "Shit Nigger" and "Ape." He ignored it and walked on. Then, when he passed the main stand and heard fans making whooping monkey noises at him, he decided he'd had enough. He put two fingers above his mouth to symbolise a Hitler moustache and stuck out his right arm in a Nazi salute to the crowd.
Given their behavior, one might think they would have appreciated the gesture and even returned it. But a Halle supporter attacked him from behind with a corner flag and another grabbed him in a stranglehold. Ogungbure pushed them away as a teammate intervened and dragged him towards the tunnel, to the safety of the changing rooms.
"I was just so angry, I didn't care. I could have been killed but I had to do something," Ogungbure told SPIEGEL ONLINE last week. "I thought to myself, what can I do to get them as angry as they have made me? Then when I lifted my arm I saw the anger in their faces and I started to laugh."
"I've faced some sort of racist abuse at about half the matches I've played," he said, but the spitting was too much on March 25. "I've never seen anyone spit at a dog or a cat in Germany -- why should I be spat at?"
The story took a grotesque turn when Ogungbure was charged with "unconstitutional behavior" for making the Hitler salute, which is illegal in Germany. The public prosecutor's office wisely dropped proceedings within 24 hours. But the incident made nationwide headlines and spurred a flurry of reports suggesting racist abuse is rife in the lower leagues where crowds are smaller and fewer police are present.
Rolf Heller, president of FC Sachsen Leipzig, played down the incident and said it was an isolated case. "This has nothing whatsoever to do with right wing extremism, it is just misguided fervor on the part of the fans," he said. Ogungbure said he informed Heller long ago about the hostility he faces. His answer: "They only want to wind you up."
FIFA toughens penalties
The case came to the attention of the governing body of world football, FIFA, which recently implemented tougher penalties for clubs whose fans engage in racist behavior. Possible sanctions now include match suspensions, the deduction of points, relegation or elimination from competitions.
The new rules were introduced in response to recent acts of racism in the top Spanish and Italian leagues but FIFA Secretary-General Urs Linsi told German newspaper Tagesspiegel last week: "We will of course also make sure that something like this is punished in Germany's fourth division as well."
So clubs had better start getting their act together, because greeting black players with ape noises and riling against foreigners is a frequent occurrence, especially, it appears, at matches involving teams from eastern Germany where unemployment is high and support for far-right parties has been strongest in recent years.
Last weekend at a lower division match between Hamburg St. Pauli and eastern club Chemnitz FC, visiting Chemnitz fans stormed Turkish-owned stores chanting "Sieg Heil" and waving imitation Nazi flags. Some shouted: "We're going to build a subway from St Pauli to Auschwitz."
Such behavior is bad enough at any time, but especially damaging now with Germany trying to project a cosmopolitan image under a World Cup slogan: "A Time to Make Friends."
Neo-Nazis plan to spoil World Cup
German officials last week admitted the far right may try to capitalize on the month-long World Cup, which starts July 9. Interior Minister Wolfgang Sch�uble said neo-Nazi groups were planning to use the tournament to raise their profile.
The far-right NPD party and other neo-Nazi groups apparently want to stage a "freedom of speech" march in Gelsenkirchen, in the Ruhr Valley, and further demonstrations in Leipzig, Berlin, and Nuremberg, to show solidarity with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has openly denied the Holocaust and suggested that Israel should be "wiped off the map."
The NPD is also already actively fomenting soccer xenophobia by offering a World Cup match fixtures guide that calls for Germany to field only white-skinned players.
The list is headlined "WHITE -- not just a soccer shirt color -- for a real NATIONAL team." It has a picture of a player bearing the number 25 -- the number used by national team player Patrick Owomoyela, who has a Nigerian father.
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North Africans, Turks, Pakistanis and others frequently assault those of European ancestry as well. It's not a one way street.
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Catholic Gyoza Member
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And I thought Raiders fans were nuts. [ Linked Image]
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bottom line is soccer,(football to the rest of the world that doesn't know any better), can be a pretty boring sport to watch and the games are long. Add spectators fueled by alcohol and this sort of thing is bound to occur. I'm a blue collar Pittsburgh Steelers fan who's attended his fair share of games in his time and I've seen first hand what alcohol and testosterone does to some people. Thing is, American football moves faster and things are forgotten quicker. When you have a stadium full of people waiting around for 90 minutes plus waiting for something to happen and nothing happens, something is going to happen. Yogi Berra 
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I recall reading once that the reason violence and 'hooliganism' doesn't occur at games in America is because most of the fans sit rather than stand.  I hope I'm not showing my ignorance again? :rolleyes: Zenovia
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Originally posted by Zenovia: Dear Anhelyna you said:
I have always heard of the Scotch-Irish, and automatically assumed... 
Is Scotch correct as in Scotch-Irish, or are we Americans getting it wrong again?
I agree, it can be confusing. Properly, these people (of whom I have a few hanging from the family tree) are Scot-Irish, or perhaps Scots-Irish (I'm not sure). Anyway we yanks always get it wrong! The point is they were really Scots who lived in Ulster for a few generations before moving on to North America. When I was young I always wore green and orange on St Patricks day, to honor both sides of mom's family, nobody really cared in Illinois. I suppose if I did that in Scotland or Ireland I could have been beaten up twice every time! Michael
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This sort of behaviour is happening everywhere and is a problem for many sports today. Some International sports have at times had to ban all specators to get a game played. That is an exteme situation to take but the beaviours can spill out into the areas close to the venue where the game is played and there are people who plan to clash under the cover of attending a particular game. Many people simply no longer attend sports venues in person, as it is too dangerous to take the family, or self. Actually Zenovia you are right. Almost all sports venues here in Australia have been remodeled in recent times to put in seating as a means of controlling crowds. The Scots may attend the games but the Scotch must stay outside. 
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AAAAARGH I need Fr Serge's help on this one OK Zenovia - just to add to your problems The water of life - that wonderful very special drink - is In Scotland -- whiskyIn Ireland -- whiskey And yes - though I'm not 100% certain of this I suspect you can buy whisky in the Scotch House together with your Scottish souvenirs 
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AAAAARGH I need Fr Serge's help on this one OK Zenovia - just to add to your problems The water of life - that wonderful very special drink - is In Scotland -- whiskyIn Ireland -- whiskey And yes - though I'm not 100% certain of this I suspect you can buy whisky in the Scotch House together with your Scottish souvenirs [/QB][/QUOTE] To tell you the truth, it is spelled V-O-D-K-A and of course we Russians invented it! (Along with everything else!) :p Alexandr (Sitting here, grinning evilly!)
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Originally posted by Zenovia:
Is Scotch correct as in Scotch-Irish Zenovia, No it is not. The proper terminology is Scots-Irish. "Scotch-Irish" is an Americanism that mirrors our frequent insensitivity to how the rest of the world prefers itself to be termed. In Ulster (Northern Ireland), these folk would be called Ulster Scots. "Scotch-Irish" was a pejorative term coined in 16th century America after the first wave of emigrants from Ulster arrived. American Heritage Dictionary:
scotch 1 (skch) KEY
TRANSITIVE VERB:
scotched , scotch�ing , scotch�es
1. To put an abrupt end to: The prime minister scotched the rumors of her illness with a public appearance.
2. To injure so as to render harmless.
3. To cut or score.
NOUN:
1. A surface cut or abrasion.
2. A line drawn on the ground, as one used in playing hopscotch.
------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English scocchen, to cut, perhaps from Anglo-Norman escocher, to notch : es-, intensive pref. (from Latin ex-; see ex- ) + Old French coche, notch (probably from Latin coccum, scarlet oak berry, from Greek kokkos) Scotch as commonly and inappropriately used came about as an English contraction of "Scottish" (an acceptable, but secondarily preferred, term for the Scots people). Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Scripture states, "When people hate you and persecute you for my names sake"... Footballer gets criminal record for making sign of the cross http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...+for+making+sign+of+the+cross/article.do One can see our football players making the sign of the Cross all the time. Whether praying on the bench or when they make a touchdown. No reason justifies it. Why should soccer be any different? This is persectution!  I mean come on the sign of the cross. If the guy had been muslim and bent over in their prayer position, nothing would be said. In facT many would say oh that's good, he is recognizing God. But let a Christian whisper a prayer and oh my, this guy is gonna cause a riot. IT IS SPELLED PERSECUTION!!!
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I am looking at the cashmere cardigan I bought in London 26 years ago (still looks brand new) and the label says: 'Made in Scotland for THE SCOTCH HOUSE-London, Edinbugh, Paris' It was a great store. I also bought a lovely mohair blanket and a plaid kilt that year. (The exchange rates were good, and I was a young woman who didn't have children yet! LOL!) Unfortunately, it permanently closed its doors a few years ago...another sad sign of the globalization/Americanization that has infected countries. Now you are more apt to see a GAP in many countries overseas than a traditional store indiginous to the particular culture. Is it no wonder that one would be confused when one finds a Scottish specialty store in Great Britain by this name?!? Alice
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Dear Anhelyna you said: I say: A little more tolerance please!!!! We humans are so imperfect. :rolleyes: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Neil, Thanks for the explanation! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Alice, I loved the Scotch House. Fanastic clothes...but I don't recall the Scotch. Just joking! Zenovia
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Dear Pani you said: No reason justifies it. Why should soccer be any different? This is persectution! I mean come on the sign of the cross. I say: I know it sounds outlandish to us, but let's try not to condemn others according to our own sensibilities. I know that march by the Protestant Ulter men through a Catholic area in Northern Ireland... in order no less, to celebrate a triump over them, always bothered me. But then again, the law in France banning headscarves for Muslim women, (especially considering that it's a sign of modesty), I find puzzling. But we have to realize that situations are different in different parts of the world.  What I find annoying, is how easily we Americans are criticised... especially when we vote in a conservative and devout President. When Pres. Reagan was elected, newspapers in Europe announced that we voted in a 'fascist'. To them religion in government can only be equated with nationalism, therefore Pres. Reagan and our Pres. Bush have to be Fascists. Pres. Clinton on the other hand, with all his immorality, was loved and no doubt respected for his liberal views. Sometimes it seems, we are a world apart! Zenovia
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Originally posted by Pani Rose:
One can see our football players making the sign of the Cross all the time. Whether praying on the bench or when they make a touchdown.
No reason justifies it. Why should soccer be any different? This is persectution! I mean come on the sign of the cross.
But let a Christian whisper a prayer and oh my, this guy is gonna cause a riot. IT IS SPELLED PERSECUTION!!! Pani, i f you knew the history between the Celtics and Rangers, you would know that it often CAN start a riot and that is between Christians and has NOTHING to do with Muslims!!
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