www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Disturbing News From The World Of Sport

Artur Boruc a Polish soccer player who represented his country in the 2006 World Cup, was recently the subject of a 6 month long investigation by Strathclyde police in Glasgow Scotland. He was alleged to have incited violence at a match in Glasgow between predominantly Catholic supported club Celtic and Protestant aligned Rangers by making the sign of the cross. Players from both clubs have been cautioned by Scottish Football Association officials in the past for making signs or gestures that might provoke religious tension, but this is the first time a player has been threatened with criminal charges.

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5905586

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...eper-faces-blessing-case--name_page.html

Lawrence ,

You need to understand that this is a totally different ball game over here .

It's a HUGE problem and both clubs in Glasgow [ and also the 2 main ones in Edinburgh which are also in the same positiion ] are doing their best to stop this sort of thing. Players have been asked to refrain from making the sign of the Cross .

The police do not take action lightly .

BBC report of this [news.bbc.co.uk]

Lay off the Scotch. Almost the only blight on Scotland, especially Glasgow, is its long running soccer fueds between the Catholic and Protestant teams mostly fueled by heavy drinking and thugs who haven't anything better to do than fight.

We're travelling to Scotland next week. Is it safe to offer the sign of the cross? Is it any more dangerous than it was 30 years ago?

CDL

Anhelyna

Actually I've followed and played soccer (what it's called over here) all my life and have relatives in Ireland and England. The Celtic v Rangers rivalry has been extremely intense in past years, and when they played on New Year's back in the 70's, over a 100 arrests was not uncommon. In the past though, referees merely yellow or even red carded players for doing what Artur Boruc did. What I find so disturbing is when it becomes a police matter. Tradition of violence or not, I think the person who loses self control at the sight of an individual blessing himself is the one who needs to be facing arrest. Blessing one self frequently is common practice among those from a Slavic or Latin background, those who are offended by it are no doubt very easily offended.

When Catholics can't make the Sign of the Cross without having criminal charges hurled at them, it is a very sad day.

Logos Teen

Gee, It's not like he flipped the bird at anyone.

Hard to believe that blessing oneself could be considered an inciteful act! Now swinging a punch at someone blessing himself, that's inciteful!! The world is upside down.

Michael

SHAME ON THE SCOTCH!

Teen - believe it or not - I'm in total agreement BUT the situation here in the West of Scotland is not as clear cut as you think.

Here we have a large number of Irish from both the North and South,

Add into that mixture the very strong Orange Lodge presence and you have a very inflammatory situation at any time.

Many people do deliberatley make the Sign of the Cross as a defiant act - not as an act of reverance

Zenovia - what has whisky to do with it ?

We are SCOTS

At least it isn't as bad as some places, where they call African players monkeys, and start Nazi salutes...

What's that all about?

Dear Anhelyna you said:

I say:

My ignorance shows again! I have always heard of the Scotch-Irish, and automatically assumed...

Is Scotch correct as in Scotch-Irish, or are we Americans getting it wrong again?

Also, wasn't there a Scotch House retail store in London which closed? I didn't know it sold whiskey too?

And then again, what's wrong with being a whiskey? :rolleyes:


Zenovia

well, partof it is that the Rangers and Celtics games have been MAJOR instigators of Catholic on Protestant violence mainly related to the Northern Irish connection and probably these officials thought that this player making the Sign of the Cross would exascerbate tentions but politicians and churches from all sides have said this went too far but there is a background for it. Probably Angelyna has more of a perspective.

Dear Dr. Eric you said:

I say:

Hooliganism! :p

Actually, when our actions in the U.S. are misinterpretated in Europe, (as to racism, violence, etc.), it is not that we are more faulty than others, but rather our lesser faults are being perceived as being greater than they are, because others see us through their eyes.

The Europeans have never really ceased to be racist. That they would actually hurl insults though, is abhorrent.

Zenovia

I'm not sure if this is all being misconstrued or not.

The Little League World Series is going on here in Pennsylvania, and sadly I haven't seen much of it, but I'll bet my bottom dollar there are a bunch of kids in Williamsport,PA who are signing themselves as they step to the plate. I know of at least one Steeler player who makes the Sign of the Cross before plays in anticipation of a bone jarring hit; legal, of course!

Making the Sign of the Cross is routine in professional baseball among Latin American players and many others. Maybe the U.S. isn't as bad as we make it out to be?

Bill