www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Handling Disputes on the Forum

Good Morning Everybody and especially Administrator.
I have a question for the whole forum. I have been thinking ever since the brouhaha over "Fr. Mike" and his ideas about homosexual unions. How are members to respond to such things? The problem seems to be this: we all agree that if a member loses his cool and resorts to confrontational, offensive, etc. language that other members ought to call him back and that Administrator may step in even with penalties. We've all been tempted during heated discussions and we've all seen this happen. However, what happens if somebody gets on the board and says some really rotten things but with the "gosh, who me? I'm tolerant" smokescreen approach? In other words, if a member blows his stack and uses improper tone/words, is that really more offensive than a slickster coming on and making the case that ordaining homosexual bishops is really the Christian thing to do? BTW, it does not have to be the topic of homosexuality but that is the one that Fr. Mike pushed. Is it not possible to be blasphemous, and therefore more offensive than an acid-tongued brother, while still maintaining a cocktail party calm? If so, what do members think is the right response? Admin? (For my personal $.02, I thought somebody like OrthoMan was easier to deal with than Fr. Mike).
K

Dear KH,

I can certainly understand your frustration regarding topics that as Catholic/Orthodox Christians we know to be the Truth of Faith. However, in our dialogue, we must not make arguements ad hominem . Perhaps in handling our posts, especially with those whom we disagree, let the words of Blessed John XXIII (which are popularly attributed to Augustine) be our guide,

"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things charity." ( Ad Petri Cathedram )

Fr. Deacon John,
You're absolutely right. I know that one problem with the "Fr. Mike" episode was that some posters got very sarcastic. I don't want to endorse that; also, those who got hot later made peace when the passion subsided.
What I mean is this, in order to AVOID the frustration that can lead to flare ups of anger, how do we call provocations when we see them? For example, if some poster gets on and says "Christ is an avatar of the Buddha" or "Jesus and John were lovers", they can say that with as much charity and sweet harmony as is possible and still be just as offensive to me as an angry poster who says "you rotten *&$%%@*".
Charity yes and absolutely, but to whom is the question? Is it charity to let people press on like Fr. Mike and worry more about _their_ feelings than the spiritual fidelity and well being of an angry brother who has not imbibed way out thoughts?
(For the sake of clarity and because of the inherent limits of email, let me add that I intend no "tone" or dispute for its own sake. I am really puzzled by the question)
KH

Fr Deacon John...

Good advice but.....

I bet you knew there was a "but" coming.

As KH stated above....

How do we react when in essentials, there is no unity, in doubtful matters, no liberty?

Also, I have kept quiet but it has really been a struggle, I must now point it out.

Daniel the ByzantineAscetic has been very offensive towards catholics.

As I have said here before, there is a double standard. Latin Catholics have a much stricter set of rules to follow here than do orthodox users.

If a Latin Catholic would have said that all Orthodox are schismatics and heretics (as ByzantineAscetic did in the following topics,

Ecumenism: Catholics Need to Work on "Pope for All" Project

Former Byzantine Catholic Monastery received into Orthodox Faith

They would be jumped on and scolded by a multitude of users, Byzantine Ascetic's comment didn't even raise a ripple.

DavidB has his point and I don't mean to minimize his concerns. However, I would like to keep this conversation, at first at least, not on issues of heresy/schism, but rather on issues of apostasy. I want to know what we should do when a placid voice of reason, chanting "tolerance and charity" proposes to advance and defend concepts fundamentally inimicable to the Faith. If the Orthodox brothers see me as a heretic, that is said, but at least we have a foothold of common world view upon which to base our subsequent arguments. If somebody uses the virtue of charity to cover preaching spiritual death, that is another thing all together...
KH

This is a forum dedicated to Byzantine Christianity as stated on the home page. Thus we can readily deduce that this encompasses the truths espoused by the Catholic/Orthodox East. IMHO, there is an "essential" unity of faith among the Apostolic Churches of the East and the West.

Using this, we have a guide as to what is "essential". Speaking for myself, it is physically impossible for me to read each and every post. The forum has a built in mechanism to bring dubious posts to the attention of the forum moderators. At the bottom of every post there is an icon of a whistle. Clinking on the icon will allow a poster to report a post to the forum moderator. The moderator can take the appropriate action he/she deems neccesary. If you think the moderator has not taken the appropriate action, you can appeal to Caesar, er, I mean the Administrator. This is certainly not perfect, but it should make matters a little more orderly.

Dear Fr. Deacon John:

If the Admin is, er . . . Caesar, et tu Brute?

Amado

Fr. Deacon John (BTW, I know people who like to use the first name this way and others who prefer the patrinymic as is Fr. Deacon Montalvo. Which do you prefer?)
I agree whole heartedly with your comments about the Eastern Churches Catholic and Orthodox. I think we are converging on that point, as I see by re-reading my response to DavidB.
I am curious, and maybe you can answer this: is the "whistle-blower" button much used? Or do people tend to duke it out on their own? Did anybody revert to the whistle when Fr. Mike started propounding his theories about marriage, or was he just "run off" by the hostile reaction he incited?
I have to admit that I have not used the whistle, but I will do so more in the future.
KH

KH,

to tell the truth, I do not think anyone has used the "whistle blower" mechanism to contact me.

As for the form of address, I prefer the use of John. I was ordained to the diaconate as John, not Montalvo.

Amado,

ouch! perhaps, the administrator needs to develop an icon with flames and a stake.

and were you asleep when we had that rash of Latin Trad posters who said exactly those kinds of things?????????????
:rolleyes:

David B wrote:
David,

With all due respect you have really missed the mark with this post.

The Byzantine Forum is not and never has been a Catholic forum. It is and always has been an Eastern Christian forum. It is intended primarily for Eastern Christians to come together to discuss topics of interest to Eastern Christians. Latin Catholics and others are our welcome guests and are welcome to respectfully contribute their perspectives to the discussions.

Regarding Byzantine Ascetic�s posts, if you believe that they have been welcomed without even raising a ripple then you have obviously not been following the Forum in recent weeks.

Admin

KH,

All I can suggest is that discussions be conducted with the utmost charity. One can state that what another poster has written is not acceptable in light of the teaching of the Catholic or Orthodox Churches. One should not state that another person is wrong. If you believe that someone is dishonestly using a "gosh, who me? I'm tolerant" smokescreen approach, then you should challenge the contents of what is written. Participants should never engage in posting anything that appears as an attack on another Forum participant. That only succeeds in weakening one�s own position.

Admin

Christ is in our midst!

(Lets NEVER forget that)


I was going to state my own policy, hard learned and hard earned, when it comes to criticism and how we eastern Christians handle disputes among ourselves and everyone else. But........I forgot what it was.

I'll be back after I remove the huge 2x4 from my own eye before I look for your speck.....

Michael

Montalvo is a surname, not a patronymic! Incognitus

Admin,
I am aware that this is a forum for Eastern Christians and this does explain away the double standard a bit. I would just think that those who are catholics would be a bit more understanding of our Latin Brothers and hold them to the same standard as our Orthodox brothers, not a higher one.

Also, the domain name might be a bit of an issue as to people thinking this is a Catholic forum.....

As for my not reading the forum as of late, this is true as I have been run off by those comments made by Byzantine Ascetic. I do see you have tried to correct them, but I feel that when you deal with the orthodox you do so in a lighter manner than you do with others.

I think this is just something that we disagree on.


David, the Byzantine Catholic