www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Conflict between Catholic Churches of Ukraine

[ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: Aklie Semaet ]

Dear Catholicos,

Did I say anything?

I'm glad you guyz are enjoying yourselves!

As for Amado's point concerning married priests in the Phillippines, I thought the priests there already had their women and children . . .

Alex

Alex:

As to our "priests having women and children," I think that was during the Spanish colonial days more than 300 years ago.

Of more recent memory, our actor ex-President Joseph Estrada was rumored (some say he boasted)that he had six! He was promptly ousted by a People's Revolt II with the help of Jaime Cardinal Sin, the Archbishop of Manila, and of other notables in the Roman Catholic hierarchy. :p

AmdG

Dear Amado,

Your Cardinal was well-known for his jovial welcome to guests when he said to each: Welcome to the house of Sinh!

A Filipino priest recently told me that "priestly affairs" are sometimes common in some region . . .

All I'm saying is that should you ever have married priests, you will be prepared for it.

Magandang Gabi!

Alex

"Kerala: God's Country" (tourism slogan)

Beat THAT, Amado.

Alex:

I know about them too well! I was just rying to lessen the impact of your "revelation" on me as I am unable to feign ignorance thereof.

"Macho" culture gone awry?


Phil:

That's a WHOPPER! Nothing beats it, not even Japan's "Land of the Rising Sun."

AmdG

Alex, ALity, and all Ukies:

Going back to the original post of ALity, what's your take on this:


8-May-2002 -- ZENIT.org News Agency

POST-SOVIET UKRAINE SEES ITS FIRST 5 CATHOLIC PRIESTS ORDAINED

2 New Dioceses Formed in Reorganization

ROME, (ZENIT.org-Avvenire).- The first five Catholic priests in post-Soviet-era Ukraine were ordained Saturday in Kiev, signaling the country�s ongoing recovery from a half-century of totalitarian domination.

The five priests -- Valera Vaculienco, Oleg Sarkatov, Andrej Kovalevskij, Jan Piscyk and Victor Simon -- are from the Kiev region, where the Soviet authorities had made concerted efforts to wipe out signs of national tradition, including the religious legacy.

The five new priests are sons of "new hope" that, as John Paul II said during his visit to Kiev last June, "has arisen in the last two decades."

The Vorsel Seminary, where the newly ordained studied, was established after six years of work. The seminarians themselves worked to transform the former premises of a Soviet youth group into their house of study.

Inaugurated in 1996, the seminary is dedicated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The first deacons were ordained last year. The seminary currently has 34 students.

The ordinations are a sign of the growth the Ukrainian Church of the two rites (Greek-Byzantine, numerically the larger, and Latin) has been experiencing for the past 20 years, thanks also to the help of many Western episcopal conferences.

Meanwhile, the Vatican announced the establishment of two new Latin-rite dioceses in Ukraine, added to the 14 in existence.

The new dioceses are Kharkiv-Zaporizhia, established following the breakup of the territory of the dioceses of Kyiv-Zhytomir and Kamyanets-Podilskyi; and Odessa-Simferopol, whose territory also resulted from the breakup of the Diocese of Kamyanets-Podilskyi.

Tensions remain, since Moscow�s Orthodox patriarchy regards these lands as canonical Russian -- that is, Orthodox -- territory.

Catholics of the Greek-Byzantine rite of Western Ukraine, who between 1989 and 1990 emerged from the catacombs, have asked the return of property seized by the Communists and handed over to the Russian Orthodox Church.

Complicating the Catholic-Orthodox relations is the three-way split within the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, only one branch of which is loyal to Moscow.

AmdG

There are a number of comments I wish to make.

One: there are now, according to this article 14 diocese in Ukriane of the Latin Rite Catholic Church for roughly 800,000 to 1,000,000 Roman Catholics in Ukraine.

There are 11 eparchy's in Ukraine for the Greek Catholic Church, which nubmer 5-7million. Demagraphics may reveal the truth of this story, considering there are millions of Greek Catholics in the Lviv Archeparchy, so proportionately, there may be a need for more Roman Catholic Diocese than Greek Catholic eparchys to cover less Roman Catholics in a more geographically dispersed region (Did that make any sense? ).

But on the other side of the coin, one could look at this as Rome's intentional building up of diocesan structures to carve out Ukrainian territory for her own evangelical endeavors. I felt that this was the reason for the diocese when I first started writing, because of my understadning of history and how the RC's work in the world. But after I started writing, I thought of the numbers and geography and think that this is probably more closer to the truth. Roman Catholics have been in and apart of Ukraine for hundreds of years and they have a right to exist now and to grow if such should be the will of the father. Orthodoxy/Greek Catholicism will not disappear in Ukraine. But perhaps the presence of Roman Catholics in greater numbers will compel us to better unerstand our own traditions and what makes us unique. Perhaps it will be a catalyst to reinvent and rediscover traditional Orthodoxy.

The "new hope" comment by the Pope was, I believe, made to the religious hope that exists in Ukraine after years of persecution for both Catholic and Orthodox. But I fear, because of the way this was presented in the context of the article and to whom it's intended audience is, Roman Catholics, that RC's will view this as a new hope for the RCC Church in Ukraine. There is more to the picture than that. And depending on who asks Roman Catholis for money in the west, alot of it can and does go to spread the Latin Rite in traditionally Orthodox lands where there is a spiritual void left over from communism.

And if the Orhodox do not get off their butt and become evangelical and stop insisting on the archaic "cannonical teritory" defense to prohibit other religious groups into their countries, then they will lose some of the children of the faithful who are searching for salvation and a religious understanding of the human condition.

My two Cents,
Happy Feast of the Ascension!
ALity

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: ALity ]

Dear Ality,

So by celebrating the Ascension today, I take it you are Roman Catholic?

Alex
Old Style Greek Catholic

Ality,

The article is wrong about the number of diocese. I think the double names confused them. Ukrainian brothers please excuse any spelling errors.

The Latins have 7 diocese:
Archdiocese of Lviv
Diocese of Kamjanets-Podilski
Diocese of Kharkiv-Zaporizhia
Diocese of Lutsk
Diocese of Odessa-Simferopol
Diocese of Kyiv-Zhytomir
Diocese of Mukachevo

In Christ,
Lance

Lance,
The only spelling error I see is Odessa. Thats the Russian form, Odesa is Ukie. We'll forgive you though A+ for effort!
-ukrainiancatholic

Christ is risen!

Oh Anastasios, I'm working on it already! I can think of several changes I'd like to do to the Novus Ordo!

In Domino,

Edward

Christ is risen!

Ah, but Katholikos... India is originally Assyrian territory :p

I should like to see Asia Major being Assyrian territory - they got here first! Let's see... I'm trying to imagine a poor Indian Assyrian Bishop trying to serve a Hierarchal Divine Liturgy in a Russian-usage parish... that would be a sight indeed!

In Domino,

Edward

Christ is risen!

I don't mean putting latins into africa! I mean taking them OUT! We should have these lovely Eastern Liturgies in every african language! I should like to see all the money spent on African missions going to help build up the Coptic and Ethiopic Churches and having THEM send missionaries to serve all of Africa. Now THAT would be something.

In Domino,

Edward

In the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. One God. Amen.

Well Amen on that one! When I was at a conference at the Batekhenet* in Addis Ababa a few months ago some priest was addressing the audience on this very point. We will see what becomes of all this talk in Addis Ababa and Alexandria about evangelizing the rest of Africa. If it is serious I am ready to do what ever they ask me to do in assistance of the missionary effort. But any missionary work in Africa has to come to grips with the role played by the Latins and the Protestants in slavery and the colonization process. But there remains the fact that the Orthodox churches in general and the EOTC in particular (because it is an indigenous African Church) are not viewed in this negative way. This makes the continent ripe for non-tele Evangelization

God Bless You

Aklie Semaet

*Bate = house and Khenet = clergy so the literal translations would be “priests house” I guess. But like Batemengist (mengist = government) so "government house' is the direct translation while it is usually translated into English as “Presidential Palace.” So I guess Batekhenet (which is never translated to English) is free translated as “Patriarch's Palace.”

[ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: Aklie Semaet ]