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I was listening to the local Catholic radio station, which is usually a blessing, the other day and they had a prayer that startled me. It went something like "And may Our Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary, etc".
I did some research on the internet and learned that this prayer came from a private revelation in Holland in the 1940s and 50s, that the visions had been judged as not supernatural by the local bishop, backed by Rome, but that a new bishop had decided in 2002 that the revelation was genuine and to allow its promulgation.
The defenders have a convoluted explanation of how this term "who once was Mary" should be understood, which explanation sounds like patent nonsense to me.
As a major part of the revelation was to promote the "Third Marian Dogma", that Mary is Mediatrix of All Graces and Co-Redemptrix, a lot of notable people have jumped on the bandwagon [eg, Mark Miravelle].
My question is: what is being done to stop this obviously heterodox revelation and the weird prayer that comes with it?
That bishop must have been off his rocker, or needed pilgrim's cash, to have allowed this nonsense to be spread.
Anyone?
-Daniel, who knows Mary is still Mary and will be forever
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From EWTN: Our Lady of All Nations
On 31 May 2002 Bishop Jozef Marianus Punt of Haarlem, having concluded a period of investigation, declared the apparitions accorded Ida Peerdeman of Amsterdam, Holland, in which the Blessed Virgin Mary asked to be known as Our Lady of All Nations, to be "of a supernatural origin".
Decree of 31 May 2002 (Requires Adobe Acrobat Reader)
This decree ends a 45 year period of investigation and decision, as reflected in the following history:
7 May 1956 - Bishop of Haarlem finds no evidence of the supernatural nature of the apparitions, and prohibits public veneration.
2 March 1957 - Bishop of Haarlem confirms this decision with consent of the Holy Office (13 March 1957).
24 May 1972 - Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, responding to a letter of 29 March from the Bishop, re-affirms its decision.
27 June 1974 - CDF affirms its earlier decision, after a deeper investigation, inviting the faithful to discontinue all forms propaganda with regard to these alleged apparitions and revelations.
31 May 1996 - The then Bishop of Haarlem, Henry Bomers, published a Notification clarifying the distinction between the title, image and prayer, on one hand, and the messages on the other. The title, image and prayer had been approved for private veneration since the 1950s (according to this decree), and he was now granting the privilege of public veneration, as well. The belief in the messages had been prohibited, but now was permitted according to one's own conscience, the Church being unable to rule definitively "at the moment". As the decree notes, he consulted with "official authorities", without specifying who those authorities were.
3 December 1997 - The Bishop writes Letter (HB-97-403) commending the "Action of The Lady of All Nations" and the work of Fr. Paul Maria Sigl.
3 May 2002 - In a Letter of 3 May 2002, Raphael Soffner of the public affairs office of the diocese of Haarlem affirmed to EWTN that the public veneration of Our Lady of All Nations by title, image and prayer, is permitted to Catholics by decision of the Bishop of Haarlem, "with the consent of the Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome". Catholics may make "a personal judgment according to their conscience" regarding the messages and apparition.
31 May 2002 - Bishop Punt declares the apparitions to be of supernatural origin.
The Expression "Who Once Was Mary"
In the approved prayer, the Blessed Virgin is referred to as Our Lady of All Nations "who once was Mary". It is explained by the promoters of the devotion in the following manner:
This refers to the fact that Mary is no longer just Mary but rather The Lady, The Woman at the foot of the Cross. These words refer to her Eternal Motherhood over all of us, for she is Mother Whom Jesus gave to us from the Cross with the words: Woman behold thy Son!
I might add that the Motherhood of Mary is eternal in the sense that it was foreseen by God, along with the Incarnation of the Word, from all eternity. Similarly, the Church speaks of Mary as the Mother of God, not because she herself is eternal or Mother of the divine nature, but because He of whom she is Mother in the order of human nature is God, the Eternal Word.
Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL I don't know, seems kind of shady to me. I prefer my apparitions to make sense to the common man, and this one doesn't quite fit the bill.
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Originally posted by Michael_Thoma (from EWTN):
This refers to the fact that Mary is no longer just Mary but rather The Lady, The Woman at the foot of the Cross. That's silly. OK, she IS more than just a 1st century Jewish woman, but she's STILL Mary. That would be like saying, "And Christ, who once was Jesus." I think belief in such devotions/apparitions really causes more problems in Orthodox-Catholic and East-West relations. Dave
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And the lesson is?? If you can't get something approved, re-introduce it later in a sillier time and it might have a chance? 
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Michael, where did you get the picture?
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I brought this topic up over a year ago, due to finding a "holy card" within one of my used book purchases, called "Ominium Populorum Domina", The Lady of All Peoples.
"Lord Jesus Christ,Son of the Father,send Your Spirit over the earth. Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all peoples,that they may be preserved from corruption,disaster and war.
May the Lady of All Peoples, who once was Mary, be our Advocate ". Amen
Imprimatur Vincent M. Harris, Bishop of Austin, Texas 4/22/81
Card was made in Quebec Canada
james, going east, but on how far depends on Rome.
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Believe it or not, I ran across something a couple of weeks ago called a "Goddess Rosary." It was completely heretical, and a bit shocking.
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I came across this in 2003 while in France from a very odd family of RCs who were into a lot of New Age stuff <shudder> with a mentally challenged and slightly physically handicapped daughter. They insisted that Bridie had to join them in these complicated prayers to Our Lady of All Nations every night - and the whole Campsite would hear them [ not that they were understood by most present  ] Poor Bridie was not able to join in - didn't have the ability. I didn't take to it at all - no matter how often it was shoved at me. It just made me very very uncomfortable. BTW - that family are still using it - they were there this year and now have the very dubious distinction of being banned from the Baths in Lourdes - well they took wee Bridie 3 times a day - and eventually were twigged and told .. "no more"
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I find Mr Donovan's explanation of the term "who once was Mary" to be complete gobbledygook. It cannot be explained away without doing violence to the language. "Once was" means "is no more" or it means nothing. I once was an infant. That means I am an infant no more. However, I cannot say "Iconophile, who once was Daniel" without risking my mental health.
This devotion never should have been approved; it sounds like the liberal theologians who distinguish between the Jesus of History and the Christ of Faith.
Indeed, it sounds like Mary has been subsumed into some sort of goddess figure. I ran into New Age sites researching this who have exactly that understanding of Our Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary.
-Daniel, who will stick with Mary of Nazareth, thank you very much
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There will always be "crackpots" who claim that
so-and-so is speaking to them and giving them
messages. The REAL problem, IMO, is that the
Church has too many bishops who aren't Catholic
anymore approving this sort of tripe, and too
many liberal theologians defending them......
antonius
(disclaimer-speaking only for myself)
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Dear Friends,
What I find interesting, and I'm just thinking out loud here, is the difference in Marian devotion in East and West.
In the East, personal miracles experienced through a venerated Icon of the Theotokos is what leads to its glorification and liturgical honour - and these icons are numerous.
In the West, new Marian devotions appear to be focused on messages from the Theotokos communicating new doctrine etc.
Comments?
Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
In the West, new Marian devotions appear to be focused on messages from the Theotokos communicating new doctrine etc.
Alex It has always been the teaching of the Church that no "apparition" or "message" can introduce NEW doctrine. Any one that appears to do so should be regarded with EXTREME suspicion...... antonius
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It seems that often these apparitions revolve around apocalyptic themes. A new "doctrine" would seem to be a condition which would lead the miracle to be denounced by the Church rather than approved.
Many people are still seeking miracles, signs and wonders, etc. Our Lord knows our personal needs and weaknesses.
However, I tend to believe that eventually these people, if they remain faithful to the True Faith are led on to a deeper faith, less subject to emotional highs and lows and attachment to "miracles."
May God increase our faith,
Peace, Tammy
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Dear Friends,
By "new doctrine" I mean something like the "Co-Redemption."
I do not mean that this would be "new" to our faith - one could argue, and I would, that it is already there.
I meant to say a "new definition" of faith.
In addition, the apparitions that the West has seem to often be based on paraliturgical devotions - whereas the East seems to want to keep them firmly within the liturgical tradition connected to icons etc.
Alex
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The Vatican agrees... Vatican rejects prayer to "Lady of All Nations" SAN PABLO CITY - The Vatican City's Congregatio Pro Doctrina Fidei (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) [CPDF] does not permit any Catholic community of Christ's faithful in the country and throughout the world "to pray to the Mother of God" under the title of 'Lady of All Nations' with the added phrase 'who was once Mary'. .... "Your Excellency," the CPDF said, "is requested to take into consideration the above mentioned advisory and inform the members of the Catholic Bishop's Conference of the Philippines that the CPDF does not permit any Catholic community of Christ's Faithful to pray to the Mother of God under the title of 'Lady of All Nations' with the added expression 'who was once Mary'.... http://www.msc.net.ph/balita/07_25_07_31/b2.html
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