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Yikes! Us poor Greek-Americans would probably have to jump through flip-flops to attend Divine Liturgy there. (But hey, I've ALWAYS

Yikes! Us poor Greek-Americans would probably have to jump through flip-flops to attend Divine Liturgy there. (But hey, I've ALWAYS advocated arming the Ukrainians! Like the Greeks, they don't shrink from a good fight! And they are always the most hospitable once they understand that you aren't some 'mole' from some 'quisling' group.) And Lordy, do these Ukrainians party!!! All sorts of wonderful (but gas-inducing) foods; vodka; music to make the heart sing; dancing to make aerobics look like a walk in the park; and the most wonderful folks to ever welcome a stranger.

Perhaps if I wore a powder-blue suit and a golden shirt, they'd accept me? Now, if I could only find out where to purchase one of them 'thar Ukrainian Tridents to put on the lapel.....?

Alex? You there? Can you help? ukrainianCatholic? you? (I've found a Greek store in downtown Chicago on Halsted to get some good stuff -- hey 5' long candles! - but have yet to find a Ukie place.)

Help!!!

Blessings!

That is not entirely true. They do use English when requested, as in for weddings and funerals and baptisms. Their parishes is now packed with the "4th wave" of emmigrants, so it makes sense that it would be only in Ukrainian.

Don't worry about the suit and shirt. We don't have that kind of bad taste any more. Hahaha!

Daniil

Daniil,
Are the Cathedral and Sts. V and O still at 'odds'?

Dear Dr. John,

My grandfather served at St. Volodymyr's and Olha for a little while, but his friend decided to stay at that wonderful parish.

No need for cultural costume, although you are certainly free to shop at the wonderful Ukrainian stores near the Church!

You would be more than welcome at the Church. It is a place where they a high percentage of university-educated people and they would be flattered to have someone of your academic, spiritual and cultural background visit them.

Among Ukrainians, Hellenic culture is highly venerated. Constantinople is our spiritual Mother as is Kyiv. Greek architects built the Kyiv Caves Lavra (all 12 are canonized saints today) and our Metropolitans were initially either Greek or Macedonian (I'm not going there!).

Kyiv's main cathedral was named for Aghia Sophia. And we never had any problems with Hellenization that other Slavic groups had - we never had any reason to be anything but happy to be in union with Constantinople and Ukrainian Catholics still revere that tie.

The Ukrainian Metropolitan Hilarion Ohienko wrote a book on our Byzantine heritage to show how Ukrainians too culturally share in it and should be proud of it.

You are welcome anytime. Perhaps you would like to go with Reader Sergius and discover your roots together ?

Alex

Well, I appreciate the offer, but I think it would be best to go with some native Ukrainians in order to be most easily welcomed.

You say that there are stores there where one can purchase Ukrainian goods? I am very fond of the multi-color table linens; they are truly beautiful. Might there be restaurants (like around St. George's in NYC)? I love Ukrainian food -- except for the raw garlic dipped in honey that we do in our parish -- Is this Ukrainian or Ruthenian? I've had the sauerkraut and mushroom soup, and it has become for me a real comfort food. And the pierogi! YOWSA! And the sausage, and the sauteed cabbage, and my 'secret' recipe for mushrooms sauteed in butter and nutmeg, served with sour cream. Heaven! But I digress.....

I've driven into Chicago from O'Hare on the Eisenhower Expressway, and seen a church on the right hand side with big gold domes and 'equal-bar' (Greek) crosses. Is this the parish of Sts. Vladmimir and Olha? I've suspected it was Greek and wanted to slow down to catch a glimpse, but was too busy trying to avoid the crazies and save my life on that damnable highway.

What I love about Chicago is the AM radio station, WPNA, sponsored by the Polish National Alliance, that plays polkas all day long and rents time to the Serbians, the Croats, and Ukrainians for hour-long programs. Hot Dawg!!! I love Chicago. Ethnics Rule!!!!!

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

Yes, some native Ukrainians would be good to have come along . . .

The Greek Crosses and all things Greek have been our way to preserve our Ukrainian identity as well, and I'm sure you would be feel at home at the parish.

They are very Byzantine and set a great example for the rest of us.

If we should ever meet in person, I'll take you on a tour of Ukrainian Toronto!

Alex

Alex writes:

[Among Ukrainians, Hellenic culture is highly venerated. Constantinople is our spiritual Mother as is Kyiv. Greek architects built the Kyiv Caves Lavra (all 12 are canonized saints today) and our Metropolitans were initially either Greek or Macedonian (I'm not going there!).

Kyiv's main cathedral was named for Aghia Sophia. And we never had any problems with Hellenization that other Slavic groups had - we never had any reason to be anything but happy to be in union with Constantinople and Ukrainian Catholics still revere that tie.]

I was going to let this one pass but forgive me, I can't. As an Orthodox Catholic I can only shake my head in amazement when I read such posts. It reeks of contradictions.

If Ukrainian Catholics revere their ancestors ties to Constantinople then why aren't they real Orthodox today? And don't give me the "Orthodox In Communion with Rome' fallacy. It's an Oxymoron.

Perhaps, Alex you can explain if all the above is true then why did you all turn your backs on your 'spirtual mother' and run to your surogate mother in Rome? Especially since you were so happy to be union with Constantinople (who's authority you were under at the time of Brest/Litovsk).

Haven't I read here and elsewhere the main reason for the 'union' was because of the control Constantinople had over the brotherhoods in the Ukraine rather than the persecution of Orthodoxy by your ancestors new Polish Roman Catholic overlords.

What you did, was take all the spiritual beauty your 'spiritual mother' gave you and turn your backs on her. And you want us to believe you still have ties to her that you revere?

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

As I am leaving here, you are my last post-response.

I wish you well!

Yes, we went into union with Rome and our ancestors did that, partly because of difficulties with Constantinople.

But that did not prevent us, as Eastern Catholics, from venerating the religious culture of Constantinople.

And, ultimately, Constantinople was in union with Rome for the first 1,000 years.

So, on this level, we are more faithful to that tradition than yourself.

Sorry to end so abruptly.

See you,

Alex

OrthoMan,

I read your post, but your presence here in this Catholic forum show your continued connection to the Catholic Church under her Unviersal Pastor the Pope.

We may all have our different opinions, but everyone come into the Catholic household!

K.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[QB]Dear Orthoman,

"As I am leaving here, you are my last post-response.

And, ultimately, Constantinople was in union with Rome for the first 1,000 years.

So, on this level, we are more faithful to that tradition than yourself."


You obviously did not have the time to mention that the relationship, or the "union," Constantinople and Rome shared before 1054 was based on very different principles than those of your contemporary Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Vatican.

FG

I mean no disrespect, but I have a question.

By what authority does anyone outside the Byzantine Catholic Church or anyone outside the other Eastern Catholic and Oriental Catholic Churches tell them how they feel or how they believe or who they are?

If Eastern Catholics tell us that they hold dear their Constantinopolitan or Syriac traditions and customs and faith, I believe that is simply a matter of accepting their self definition. If they tell us that they are Orthodox in Communion with the Pope, they are.

Why should they have to prove anything to any of us outside of these long suffering Churches. They do not need our approval, Latin Catholic or Orthodox alike, in my estimation.

They are who they are. We, Latin Catholic and Orthodox alike, should simply respect that. These Churches have suffered enough to last for eternity as they choose to be. They should not be abused because of their Communion or for their Orthodoxy.

They model loyalty that is seldom seen. Isn't it time for the rest of us to grow up and look to see the wonderous things that God is doing in these Churches? Isn't it time to stop intimating that because of their Union with Rome, that they are somehow less Church?

In my estimation, they are gifts of God to us all.

I will duck now!

Steve
JOY!

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Inawe ]

Dear Steve,
As always you say the most beautiful things. God bless you my friend.
Don

Amen to both posts. Thank you for your kindness and consideration of who we Eastern Catholics are.

Blessings!

Dear Don,

As usual, my friend, I am grateful to you for your kindness to me. I am happy to count you and the others here among my Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters!

Steve
JOY!

Of course, I am happy to have as fellow posters and friends our Orthodox brothers and sisters, too.