www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall My Son's 1st Divine Liturgy

"Early confirmations" were not granted as dispensations, but had been (and still are?) the normal practice in Spanish-speaking countries or areas. Typically, all children received confirmation when the bishop made his pastoral visitation to the parish. So depending upon the cycle of visitation (every 2-3 years), every child baptized during the intervening years would receive confirmation by the bishop.

The proper sequence of the Sacraments of Initiation is Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist. If any of the Latin brethren have been present at the Easter Vigil, one would notice the sequence is maintained for those initiated into the Church at that time. Although Pope St Pius X moved the sequence out of order, confirmations had been celebrated at an earlier age even in the non-Spanish-speaking countries. In the years prior to Pope St Pius X's pontificate, most children completed the Sacraments of Initiation (in the ancient order) by age 11-12. What we have seen mainly in the US dioceses is that the age for Confirmation is pushed to an older age.(IIRC, in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, age of confirmands is 17-18.) I remember my own Confirmation occurred during the 7th grade (I was 12).

This recent innovation of early communion prior to confirmation is only about 100 years old. The Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to allude to that the practice of receiving the Eucharist before Confirmation is out of order:

My son has not had First Communion. While I am a proponent of the Eastern Practice, it is not the will of my Bishop that he recieve Communion for another year yet.

Ergo, I will conform my will to that of my Bishop in humble obedience.

Paromer,

Is it possible that your friend was sick as an infant. A cousin of mine was in danger of death shortly after birth. The attending priest Baptized him, Confirmed him and gave the Annointing of the Sick at one time.

By the Grace of God, he lived, but the Confirmation done was only permitted as it was in extremis.

Francis- I am a member of a Byzantine parish, though raised RC. My kids have been recieving Communion since we joined. The pastor has offered to chrismate them but we declined, as they were enrolled in a RC school and the classes will recieve confirmation together in 8th grade [we told them that First Communion meant First Roman Communion, but confirmation can only be recieved once].
But then, our pastor is very accomadating; I have heard of other pastors who will not communicate children unless their parents have officially transferred rites, which we have no intention of doing until there is one, non-ethnic Byzantine Church.
Anyway, as we are homeschooling this year we will get the chillen chrismated soon...
peace, Daniel

Just to add to the general confusion: baptized Latin children HAVE been chrismated - if you attend (or read) the Latin baptismal service you will note that the priest annoints the neophyte with Holy Chrism.
I've been attempting for years to find out what this means. So far, the most amazing response I've had is the assertion that "well, this used to be the sacrament of confirmation but no longer is" (that was said to me by a perfectly serious and respectable RC sacramental theologian, who must have been either desparate or out of his gourd). But since the child has, indeed, been chrismated, that pretext for refusing the child Holy Communion falls.

At the risk of repeating myself, any child may participate in more than one "First Communion" celebration, so if mama wants to gussy up the child for such an occasion, she is quite free to do so = at least as far as I'm concerned. The child may take a different view of the matter!

Incognitus

Here's what the CCC says about the Roman practice of "double" Confirmation:

So in the post-baptismal anointing by the presbyter, does the presbyter not anoint the forehead of the neophyte? I guess in the case where the Latin/Roman deacon performs the Baptism, which seems to be more common in some parishes, there would be no "double" Confirmation since the deacon would not (should not) administer the sacred chrism.

Manuel,

I think you hit the nail on the head. New Mexico does have historic ties to Mexico. NM was once under the Mexican flag and the bishopric of Durango, Mexico. Even after the American conquest, New Mexico stayed closely tied to Hispanic culture and religious tradition.

Paul

I was raised in the Latin Rite. I was confirmed at age 13. A buddy of mine, of Irish descent, was raised in an Italian Parish where he was confirmed at age of 9. It was the custom then. 1950's).

I was confirmed when I was 4 precisely because on such year the Bishop came to my old Parish. I believe the practice even in Mexico is to be confirmed not before the age of 12, except for those areas difficult to reach, where the Bishop goes every 2 or 3 years.

In Christ.

Hello Scotus,

No illness, my friend was a healthy baby girl. Like Fr Deacon John stated infant confirmation was the norm in Spanish speaking countries including what we now call the state of New Mexico.

God bless you,

Paul

Hi. Paromer wrote:
Indeed, and part of my family comes from Durango *waves to Paromer*

Bernardo wrote:
I wonder how long this has been the case, and how consistent it is across Mexico. Remember, I'm still young and many of my classmates were confirmed before First Communion.I don't think they were all from remote places.

Also, remember my oldest brother was confirmed in the Metropolitan Cathedral, in the center of Mexico City when he was 1 or 2. I asked my dad twice to make sure he wasn't mistaken.

Maybe this is fairly recent and it still varies across the country? I wonder if this is being done partly in imitation of American diocese. I should ask some of my relatives when I get a chance and see what they know.

Incognitus,

I believe your theologian friend was correct and liturgical scholars are in general agreement that before the Latin Church seperated baptism and chrismation the point in the current rite in which chrism is applied as a blessing is where the Sacrament of Chrismation once was.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fr. Deacon John,

It has been a while since I have been to a Latin baptism performed by a deacon, but I do not recall any difference between it and ones administered by presbyters. The Latin Church permits her deacons to bless and the non-sacramental anointing with chrism at baptism is considered a blessing and would be within a Latin deacon's competency.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Does anyone know the word "pilpul"? This discussion begins to remind me of it.
Incognitus

Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret. 1 Corinthians 14:13

No one has posted a definitive Latin Church teaching on the age for Confirmation. Seems that the Latin church can't make up its mind on the age for Confirmation. My friend was Confirmed as an infant, I was Confirmed at age 12, my children are being Confirmed at age 16.

This thread leads me to think that the age for Confirmation is left up to the local bishop.

I am willing to be proved wrong. :p

Paul