www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Religious Materialism

Obviously, this is a ? best asked to my spiritual father, but I figure advice from fellow Christians may be helpful, if you wish to offer.

I struggle with materialism, not only a desire for secular items (such as that shirt, DVD, or whatever that I just HAVE to buy), but also for religious items.

Here's what I mean. I happen to have a large collection of icons. Greek, Russian, Georgian, Coptic, etc. I have an extensive variety of saints' icons, from St. Kevin to St. Ephrem. Then I get an Orthodox catalog in the mail. And I see a saint who I haven't got that I feel I should have. Reason tells me I cannot possibly have every canonized saint on my wall, but the urge is there to buy...

The same goes for spiritual books. I have a variety of them, including writings of St. John Sergieff, St. Innocent of Alaska, St. Theophan the Recluse, etc. The desire to own more books almost seems idolatrous at times, even if they are spiritual.

As far as icons, I have decided to be happy with what I have... as far as books, I have a wish list that amounts to about $150. Of course money spent on books like the Philokalia or whatever is certainly not wasted, but one can certainly go to heaven having not read every saint's life ever written, and why not use some of the money to donate to a worthy cause instead of buying 5 books from Light and Life, or what catalog have you?

I have also had this problem to a lesser extent with prayer ropes and rosaries. Even though I had five or ten of each, there would be a very nice one in a gift shop and I impulsively would buy it.

I'm not one to share such personal stuff, but I think many would agree that keeping things inside can be due to pride, of which I have enough already.

Perhaps I could give an icon or two away to a friend? Maybe even some books?

Anyone have thoughts to share?

Maybe others can relate and agree that materialism can indeed present itself in religious wrapping? Or am I just nuts?

I know what you mean. For me it was mainly books..more books then I had time to read. Luckily I live near a theological library, so I've been able to curb that. Also icons, prayer ropes, prayer books etc. I have to keep reminding myself of the obvious; owning them isn't as important as using them.
Back in my centering prayer days my group did a quarterly book exchange where we would each bring in a book and trade.

Dear Westerner gone east,

What you are writing about reminds me very much of the first chapter or two of St John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul. This book is readily available at most libraries in case you would like to read it. According to St John, beginners in the spiritual life can suffer from the seven deadly sins, even with regard to spiritual things. The fact that you are aware of this imperfection in the soul is perhaps a sign that you are making spiritual progress. Where to go from there is according to the advice of your spiritual father. More holy belongings do not necessarily equal more holiness. Take comfort in the fact that Our Lord understands your desires for holy things, and that most prayerful people suffer from a similar attachment at some point in their lives. Your post is much appreciated as a case in point, as we all probably need a reminder to be aware of the needs of the poor. May the Lord grant you peace and obedience to your spiritual father. Tammy

Like you and David, I am guilty of "bookmania"! Here's a suggestion:

- If you must buy books, buy used ones. Look up the price of the new book and give the difference to the poor.

- Giving books and icons away is a great act of charity - when they are willing to take them. I gave a number of books (unsolicited) to a friend who was very interested in things spiritual, but he returned them all saying he did not have enough room in his house for them. I never passed along another text to him without first checking to see if he was interested. Not eveyone wants more books!

- If you have excess books, give them away to a parish. I did that recently, sending 4 large boxes of Western theology texts that I never use anymore to a local Latin parish. They were greatful to have them, and now others can enjoy the wealth of good Catholic books.

THose are just a few suggestions pertaining to books. My sense is that YES - one can become very materialistic even with religious items. All material goods can "possess" us and become idols when we pursue it, even when it is detrimental to our soul.

Hope those ideas help!

God bless,

Gordo

David, Tammy, & Gordo, thanks so much for your input. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in this. I especially appreciate the suggestion of giving away books to churches, had never considered that.

Michael

You have icons of every canonized saint? Where do you find the wall space? What about uncanonized saints such as John the Baptist, the Apostles, etc?

I collect holy cards. I have over 7,100 Saints and Beati. I read in the lives of the Saints that a certain Irish saint collected relics, and when he died they buried the relics with him.

If you buy icons to build an art collection, then there might be a problem. But if you buy the icons so you can venerate them and pray for the intercession of the saints, then I don't see a problem. Saints are like friends. You can't have too many. And I have always heard that God is glorified in his saints.

"I collect holy cards. I have over 7,100 Saints and Beati. I read in the lives of the Saints that a certain Irish saint collected relics, and when he died they buried the relics with him."

Both the collection of Holy cards and Relics is awesome!

As soon as I read this post, I thought of II Kings Chapter 13 versus 20 and 21.

"Elisha died and was buried. At that time, bands of Moabites used to taid the land each year. Once some people were burying a man, when suddenly they spied such a raiding band. So they cast the dead man into the grave of Elisha, and everyone went off. But when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet."

Westerner, if you are reading the books and using the icons you purchase, then perhaps you don't have a problem in that regard. None of us should acquire "stuff" for the sake of acquiring stuff and none of should obsess about acquiring stuff - even if it is religious stuff. Sometimes when you purchase religious icons or books, you are directly or indirectly supporting the work of a religious community that relies upon your purchases. (I try to get most of my religious supplies from my parish's bookstore or from monastic communities' bookstores.)

Take a look at your own parish. Charity begins at home. See what your parish community might need. Perhaps they need something you can help them acquire that will bring spiritual joy to your brothers and sisters in Christ as well as to yourself. Perhaps you could share some of your "stuff" with them. For example, there is joy in having a beautiful icon to look in your home, but even more joy if a couple hundred parishioners get to share it. Spread the wealth a little. Talk to your parish priest if you are so inclined to see what he might think the church needs.

One thing my husband and I used to get out of the rut of of materialism was to refuse to partake in the whole Christmas over-buying "thing" vis a vis each other. We don't need a pile of stuff. Instead of buying ourselves a pile of stuff, we find a couple worthy causes to contribute our "present money" to. We invite family and friends over to celebrate. We buy presents for kids in shelters (many shelters get wish lists from parents). We only get a couple small things for each other - mostly things that get consumed. Once you've freed yourself from the whole overly commercial "thing," you can enjoy objects properly and make other people happy. You actually feel sorry for the lady in the TV ad who gets the big SUV with the red bow on it for Christmas. Much more joy in going shopping for a kid in a shelter, really.

Several years ago, we were at a monastery on Christmas eve and a truck pulled up to make an ice cream delivery. The monks were so happy about getting chocolate ice cream for desert. (It was a Trappist monastery, they are not big on luxury.) I thought to myself, wow, the monks have got it together. When was the last time I reacted with such joy over something so ordinary? As one of them, an elderly priest who was helping me find a book said, as if sharing a great secret, "it's VERY GOOD ice cream - HEAVENLY - the Abbot's present to us on Christmas."

in terms of religious books. i think that you just have to be selective. i think many read too much opinionated stuff rather than factual resourceful books such as a catechism or Catholic encyclopedia. i dont believe theres anything wrong with gathering theological books to better onces understanding of the faith. although i think it is possible to become mini-gnostics, thinking knowledge saves, when its Christ that does. Just have to stay disciplined and have a balance.

Start giving them away to people our Lord puts in your path. St. Augustine says that the reason we are given things is so that we can share them with others who have greater need. Always say a brief prayer for the person as you give the object and continue to pray for that person in your daily prayers. Be discerning. Don't give them to anyone. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide in your discernment.

CDL

Annie's story reminds me of the days of my childhood when a birthday cake was REALLY a treat, and an ice cream treat was REALLY a treat, because people in the U.S. just did not have, nor did they indulge in the supermarket quantities of such items that we have now.

I remember when, as a child, yodels only came in two item packs. I would carefully peel off the chocolate outer layer to savor first, because that would make my treat last longer.

Today, in the U.S., one must make a conscious effort to * avoid * treats of all kinds ( and also of greater affordability than real and whole foods) which intentionally beckon to us everywhere.

In my opinion, there is something terribly wrong with this picture.

In Christ,
Alice

You may find this helpful http://byzantineevangelization.com/ "Give away what you have"

CDL

Westerner:

You might consider the discipline I impose on myself in this area. Since I grew up with very little and each purchase was something that could only be done after much saving, I grew to be very selective in what I purchased. By putting off a purchase, too, when I had two choices that I would have wanted but could only afford one, I came to the discipline of discerning what would be for the good of my spiritual journey and for the Glory of God. Not everything is good for each person even when it is genuinely a spiritual treasure. For a number of years I had only two books: a prayer book and a copy of the Desert Fathers. I used them over and over. I learned from that experience that it sometimes takes awhile for something good to "sink in," at least to one, like me, who could forget what he has read. The prayers have sunk in so deep I don't need the book to have them start spontaneously and the Desert Fathers come speaking to me in so many situations it's like having someone always standing by to offer advice.

Similarly with rosaries and chotki. I had a number of them and have given them away to those who are in need or who might not have bought one for themselves. An inherited rosary from my grandfather went to a cousin who had never had one. Another I bought I gave to a man I carried the Lord to each Sunday. His wife said he had never used a rosary until I gave him that one. Another I gave to my son who has used it daily. I can only use one rosary or one chotki. The important thing is to actually use it. Having these things just to have them helps no one. My chotki started out 30 years ago as a sort of "bishop's red" in color; today it is almost worn through to the white material underneath. (Almost approach this like my grandparents: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.")

If I were to give any lasting advice, I would recommend that you ask your spiritual father what would be most profitable for you where you are in your pilgrimage and stay with those few things for awhile. It seems to me from my own experience that the "shotgun" approach to spirituality doesn't allow for a deepening of one's relationship with Christ but allows the danger of superficiality to settle in--something like "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" which one sees so often in the novice who gets into deep arguments over things he doesn't understand but has given a casual read to.

In Christ,

BOB

I also have some 50 holy cards, maybe more. In the guesthouse and chapel in the monastery I visited there were many simple paper icon prints, no materialism there.