www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Hagia Sophia

Rose, I have wondered, and have said before on this Forum, that I wonder if God is just doing what he did with the Israelites in the desert - waiting for this faithless generation to pass away. My regret is that I am part of the age group making up the faithless generation.

I think there is truth to this. I've thought about this a lot, especially over the past year. Not just when Israel was in the desert but also all its other troubles. Sometimes I think the Church is going through something similar and I wonder if only people would try to be more holy perhaps we could have avoided some things, or at least make it more bearable.

I agree with you on holiness. I also see as a sign of weakness, that we don't have monastics in large numbers praying for us like we used to have. Anyone who would dismiss the value of monastics has lost his mind! The holiness and prayer coming from those folks may be what's keeping the rest of us afloat.

The absence of monasticism is indeed an indicator of the level of contemporary culture.

One can only speculate what the future will bring. Will there someday be a revival of monasticism, or have consumerism & consumption so depraved the mind today that mankind no longer understands?

Stojgniev

At this link see an "idealized" image of Hagia Sophia as well as other info: http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/hagiasophia.htm

Vito that is beatuiful without those towers around it. Must have been such an awesome place and time.

The holiness and prayer coming from those folks may be what's keeping the rest of us afloat.

I agree with y'all, but don't forget the g-mas and g-pas who have spent countless hours on their knees with their chotkis and rosary beads. They are a poweful force in this crazy world.

Like someone stated of Fr. Groschel, he learns his Bible from the little ladies in the Brox who have spent their whole life reading and praying it. There are a lot of monastics in this world that are not in monasteries.

Got to run..
Pani Rose

Let's take a closer look at this...

• Not sure if North America would want the EP, though NA is often touted as the best possible home. I will let our local Greeks comment further on this.
• Moscow: An EP has spent an extended time in Moscow before (when they basically 'bought' their patriarchate). I also can't see two 'competing' Patriarchs residing in the same city. Moscow would rather be the EP.
• Kyiv: An intriguing idea.. It would upset Moscow to no end. But, as Kyiv is striving for it's own patriarchate, I can't see two residing in the same city. How about L'viv?
• OR... how about Mukachevo?

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

If Moscow, Kiev, N.A., or Mukachevo demurs, we will gladly accommodate the EP in Rome. He can easily be distinguished from our own Oecumenical Patriarch (OP), the Pope!

The EP will shephered the East and the OP, the West.

In the meantime, let the Doge of Venice be resurrected and lay siege again on the Phanar and drive out those "infidels!"

Amado

P.S. Vito's linked photo of the Hagia Sophia, without the Muslim spires, is awesome!

Amado,

Though the Pope carries many titles, I'm pretty sure (O)Ecumenical is not to be found in any of them! Some EC books refer to the Pope as such, but keep in mind that the texts originally referred to the EP in Constantinople. When these churches became Catholic the names were switched, but the titles never corrected and just recopied from generation to generation.

But, as to the EP residing in Rome, IIRC St Peter's was the EP's church in Rome waaaaay back when. Imagine the sight (and the "scandal") of the EP coming to Rome to reclaim "his" church. What fun!

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Dear KO63AP:

You know what, I think St. Peter's basilica is still designated as the Patriarchal Church of the EP. (Also, I think the other 3 Eastern Patriarchates have their own Patriarchal Churches in Rome, a carry-over from the olden days.)

The Pope has the Lateran basilica as his Patriarchal Church.

I might be wrong, though.

Amado

Dear KO63AP:

Yes, I believe the designation of the major basilicas in Rome still stands.

They are also called patriarchal basilicas, seemingly as representative of the great ecclesiastical provinces of the world thus symbolically united in the heart of Christendom.

(1) St. John Lateran is the cathedral of the Pope, as bishop and Patriarch of Rome;

(2) St. Peter's Basilica is assigned to the Patriarch of Constantinople;

(3) St. Paul outside the Walls to the Patriarch of Alexandria;

(4) St. Mary Major to the Patriarch of Antioch; and

(5) St. Lawrence outside the Walls to the Patriarch of Jerusalem.

See, how nice of us?

Amado

The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Mukachevo? Wow, sounds like they should get in touch with these folks and their "Eparchy of New Uzhorod" :p http://www.freewebs.com/carpathorusyn/

Dave

I've always been partial for the Patriarchate of Pittsburgh. Probably the least likely place on Earth to be conquered by the Turks.

Hmmmm. As a Byzantine, I thought that Pittsburgh IS the Holy City. You mean there are others?

Oh -I'm staying out of this - but I'm laughing like a drain

and I think that translates as "fit to burst "

Anhelyna