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That's http://www.sobornost.org — got to have the dot-whatever suffix to work.

This group had a lot of promise back in the '20s, the heyday of the Anglo-Catholic movement in Anglicanism, and in England had the very holy Fr Lev Gillet ( "A Monk of the Eastern Church' ) as its Orthodox chaplain for years starting in the 1940s.

Today I'm sure the group attracts small-o orthodox who are Anglicans.

The Roman Catholic equivalent group in England is the Society of St John Chrysostom.

To understand the context of the 1920s and 1930s statements of Orthodox Churches regarding Anglican ordinations, read my page on this topic, whose link is near the link to the text of Apostolic� Cur� on the Faith page of my site. This explanation is essential. On that "Orthodox Take on Anglican Orders' page is a link to all the statements made.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

I think that the Sergius and Bacchus group is a most wonderful organization, as is the Society of St. John Chrysostom. These groups, among others, are trying to build bridges between the various faith communities or churches. I personally believe that Christians have nothing to lose when interacting with each other and try to make sense of the various theological understandings that have served to divide us. It is much more important when we engage in ministerial endeavors to serve the poor, the disenfranchised, the sick and the outcasts. I believe that that is what Christ required of His followers. And, unfortunately for us, we don't do this anywhere near what we could.

Praying together in a 'vesper' service and then opening the doors to a meal and shelter for the homeless is to me the ultimate worship. We are making 'real' the command to love one's neighbor. Help our brethren with food, with clothing and a safe place to sleep for the night. And working with some Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopals, Jews and Unitarians does not diminish the graces that we receive in serving the folks who have problems. And, by working together, we get to know, understand and love our fellow human beings. And, as I understand it, this is what Christ commanded us to do. Without checking 'church member' IDs at the door, for either the guests or the workers. I.E.: Just love 'em. God will sort out the rest of the issues.

Does God only save those who are members of a particular community or Church? I don't think so. It's the love that one gives to God and to one's neighbor. Nothing more; nothing less.

Blessings! (And as the Great Lent approaches, perhaps we could find ways individually to enhance the lives of those who are in need. Although I do the traditional meatless dairyless Lent, I've come to realize that this is small potatoes compared to ways that I can serve the least of the Lord's children. I've just got to pray and figure out how to do this so that it will have the greatest effect for those in need. Please pray that I can find the appropriate way. Thanks!)

I don't know if theologians are the happiest people in the world; some are and some aren't, I suppose.

But one thing I do know experientially and from the perspective of a rust-bucket, nuts and bolts, Caribbean island hopping bush pilot, I've known an awful lot of Key West bar maids who were the happiest gals and good natured---I'll help you through the tough time---"secular saints" one could ever hope to meet in either heaven or hell (maybe).

I'll stop here and just let people draw their own conclusions.

.......on the other hand,

Well...maybe I'll just say...love as a verb is much more attractive ( an Hellenism) than love as a noun and one can expect (God has an imagination) to find "happy saints" in the most out-of-place and exotic environments.

Isn't God fun?

Happy landings!

FG

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Free Greek ]

Dear Free Greek,

When it comes to the God of Surprises and the Lord of Fun, I, like you, really am an "Old Believer!"

Were those bar-maids really that cute?

Alex

My dear O/C Alex:

Careful, careful...Eyes only on thy wife!!! (A glimpse at THEM on the sly is forgivable.)

Let's cast "Borgia-ism" into oblivion permanently. I won't allow unwanted bastardy intruding into my fervent prayers for your imminent fatherhood. Remember???

Now, as for aphrodisiakos, let me grab the list...

AmdGaphrodisiakos

Dear Friend,

You have frightened me back into mental and visual marital chastity . . .

Whew! I needed that . . . thanks!

Alex

Well, it sounds like Free Greek is being a true Greek, involved in commerce, but in ways that are more reminiscent of Hemingway than Odysseus.

But then again, it's the 21st century. In the 'old country', we have the kaffeneion; in the new world we have bars. But the best part is the socialization. It is good to hang around with friends and neighbors, and talk, debate and discuss. And cast an eye at the 'attractions'. No harm there.

So, Free Greek, I wish you many more encounters with 'kefi'. (But keep your money belt well hidden!!)

Blessings!

No, no, no!

If you REALLY want to punish them...make them go to Shawinigan!

OK, OK, NDHoosier. What the heck is Shawinigan? And how does it relate? Is this some Indiana 'cult'? <g>

Blessings!

Agape in the Ekumene: La Iglesia de Cuba

Bolet�n Hermano Menor
(Versi�n Inglesa)
�
It is four years now since I came back from Cuba to where I had gone to open a Franciscan Ecumenical Fraternity in the town of Cardenas in the province of Matanzas. What follows is a translation of a letter I sent to the brothers and sisters of the Order, done by Sister Mary Angela S.L.G. (Anglican Carmelite Order) and published in HERMANO MENOR, Num. 43.

I SAW CHRIST IN CUBA

After a journey of many hours of flight we arrived at the airport of La Habana at midnight, somewhat tired. To get past passport control and customs is something very slow and boring. Once past the procedures (I was lucky and passed through quickly without having to open my suitcases. They were full of medicines and presents), a coach waited for us, which carried me to Varadero where I lodged during my stay. Varadero is near Cardenas, the city where a group of brothers and sisters of the Parish of San Francisco de As�s (of the Episcopal Church) together with the rector, Rev. Emilio Martin and his wife, Rev. Griselda Delgado, had made all the arrangements, even to receiving the approbation of the diocesan Bishop, to begin the work. The inaugural act took place on 20th January at 5 p.m.

The programme which they had prepared said as follows:
- Solemn Eucharist Celebration for the Inauguration of the Franciscan Ecumenical Fraternity in Cuba.
Presenter: Bro. Pablo Manuel Alvarez, Minister General of the F.E.F. in Spain.
Celebrant: V. Rev. Jorge Perera Hurtado, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Cuba.
Preacher: Rev.Fr. Ramon Martin Rivas (Order of Discalced Carmelites)
Concelebrants: Mgr. Francisco Campos Fernandez, Vicar-General of the
Catholic Diocese of Matanzas.
Rev. Ren� Francisco Castellanos, Pastor of the Presbiterian Church of C�rdenas.
Rev. Emilio Martin Fumero, Rector of St. Francisco de Asis.

When I read this programme I could not have believed that in a country that had persecuted every religious movement, these people felt so united and were so ecumenical to the point of celebrating and giving communion to 200 people and more, who attended the ceremony from various christian denominations, where they had people from Oblate Sisters to Brothers of the Baptist Church.

That day was for me one of the happiest of my life. Tears fell from my eyes and I could hardly read because it was something marvellous and unforgettable. I was surprised at the solemnity and the perfect unfolding of the act. The altar was adorned with rose-coloured gladioli and four dozen lilies, which gave out an enchanting fragrance. The preaching of the Carmelite Father was magnificent. He spoke on S. Francis and a Franciscan brother could not have made a more moving homily than this. Thanks to a gift which they receive from the Spanish fraternity, they were able to give a little agape to around two hundred who attended the act. A biscuit and a soft drink, which were a lot for a people where they don't have confectionery.

Incredibly this act served so that many people became interested in the Order and, what is more, they enrolled themselves. A Sister began her postulancy that same day. There is a fertile field in which to work for the Lord.

Cardenas is a well-proportioned town, with two beautiful museums and an Ecumenical Centre of great activity. The countryside is lovely: great plantations of cane cover kilometres and kilometres of land.

Cuba is a miracle as I said. The cubans share all that they have, which is very much and very little. Much because they have big hearts, full of love, and little because they do not possess much of material goods. They, without wanting to, made me feel poor and miserable. We here, who live in abundance, think only about ourselves. They have a great love for everyone on earth.

I have seen Christ in Cuba, I have seen Him, I have touched Him and I have kissed Him, because each one has been Christ. Each one of these beings who drew near in order that I could speak to them.

Cubans are dignified people who do not ask for charity, however much they need it. It is an unique people and I wish that my brothers and sisters could make an effort to give all that they can for them. May we not been so miserly as we have been up till now. May we not spend money on superfluous things, but set apart a portion to send to them.

This letter is already much too long for me to go any further.There are so many more things, so that it would be interminable.

Thank you for having had the patience to read me, and I ask you to pray to the Lord in your prayers for our brothers and sisters in Cuba.

Here is the document mentioned earlier:

Encyclical on Anglican Orders
from the Oecumenical Patriarch to the Presidents of the Particular Eastern Orthodox Churches, 1922

[The Holy Synod has studied the report of the Committee and notes:]

1. That the ordination of Matthew Parker as Archbishop of Canterbury by four bishops is a fact established by history.

2. That in this and subsequent ordinations there are found in their fullness those orthodox and indispensable, visible and sensible elements of valid episcopal ordination - viz. the laying on of hands, the Epiclesis of the All-Holy Spirit and also the purpose to transmit the charisma of the Episcopal ministry.

3. That the orthodox theologians who have scientifically examined the question have almost unanimously come to the same conclusions and have declared themselves as accepting the validity of Anglican Orders.

4. That the practice in the Church affords no indication that the Orthodox Church has ever officially treated the validity of Anglican Orders as in doubt, in such a way as would point to the re-ordination of the Anglican clergy as required in the case of the union of the two Churches.

Dear Brother in Christ, Kurt,

Good point!

However, the EP position was never accepted by any other Orthodox Church, and so it is not general.

In short, they don't have a Pope like we do !

Alex

Encyclical on Anglican Orders


Context, context, context. Read my "Orthodox take' on Anglican orders page.

4. That the practice in the Church affords no indication that the Orthodox Church has ever officially treated the validity of Anglican Orders as in doubt, in such a way as would point to the re-ordination of the Anglican clergy as required in the case of the union of the two Churches.

You see, there's the kicker &#8212; the context in which this and all other such Orthodox statements must be understood. No Orthodox Church, including Constantinople, recognizes Anglican orders as they are now, in the context of a Protestant body.

http://oldworldrus.com

Oh, no dear Alex:


JERUSALEM, 1923

The Patriarch of Jerusalem wrote to the Archbishop of Canterbury in the name of his Synod on March 12, 1923, as follows:

To His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury, First Hierarch of All England, our most beloved and dear brother in our Lord Jesus, Mgr. Randall. Greeting fraternally your beloved to us, Grace, we have the pleasure to address to you the following:

Yesterday we dispatched to Your Grace the following telegram: �We have pleasure inform Your Grace that Holy Synod of our Patriarchate after studying in several meetings question Anglican Orders from Orthodox point view resolved their validity.� Today, explaining this telegram, we inform Your Grace that the Holy Synod, having as a motive the resolution passed some time ago by the Church of Constantinople, which is the church having the First Throne between the Orthodox Churches, resolved that the consecrations of bishops and ordinations of priests and deacons of the Anglican Episcopal Church are considered by the Orthodox Church as having the same validity which the Orders of the Roman Church have, because there exist all the elements which are considered necessary from an Orthodox point of view for the recognition of the grace of the Holy Orders from Apostolic Succession.

We have great pleasure in communicating to Your Grace, as the First Hierarch of all the Anglican Churches, this resolution of our Church, which constitutes a progress in the pleasing-to-God work of the union of all Churches, and we pray God to grant to Your Grace many years full of health and salvation.

(Signed) DAMIANOS

February 27/March 12, 1923

Official translation published in The Christian East, vol. IV, 1923, pp. 121-122.

The Archbishop of the autonomous Church of Sinai expressed for his Church adherence to the decisions of Constantinople and Jerusalem.

Dear Brother Kurt,

Yup, the Alexandrian Patriarchate et al. followed the Constantinopolitan Church's lead, the majority of others did not.

They had no obligation of accepting the EP's decision and the Russian Church and others certainly did not.

That is what I meant about us having a Pope .

Alex