www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope Urges Eastern-Rite Churches Not to Be Imprisoned in Past

Dear Alex,

But of course!

Consider:

Pope Urges Orthodox Churches in Communion with Rome Not to Be Imprisoned in Past...

John Paul II exhorted leaders of Orthodox Churches in Communion with Rome not to be imprisoned in the past, but to overcome their difficulties by being open to their missionary
vocation...

The Catholic Church is made up of particular Churches of the Latin rite (to which the greatest number of Catholics belong), as well as of Orthodox Churches in Communion with Rome, among which there are five traditions...

Given this difficult situation, John Paul II exhorted the members of Orthodox Churches in Communion with Rome not to be ...

It works every time!

You are just way ahead in ortheosis!

djs

Dear djs,

Excellent, well thought-out points, as always, Big Guy!

But I don't buy the bit about the Latins being the largest Particular Church.

Although we are Orthodox in communion with Rome, that doesn't mean we consider those in communion with Constantinople etc. any less "Catholic" either!

We are just Orthodox Catholics who are experimenting with communion with Rome to see if East and West can stop arguing with each other and get it together for once and for all.

We have a foot in both sides and if we succeed, then we promise not to demand too much recognition for our good ecumenical work.

The rewards in heaven will be more than enough!

Alex

Dear Alex:

Who is/are? Please elucidate.

AmdG

Dear Amado,

What I meant ( ) to say is that I don't accept that the ten million or so "Orthodox in communion with Rome" are all that there is - that the Orthodox in communion with others/not Rome are also "Catholics" and are to be counted as well.

Certainly, the RC Church is numerically/statiscally largest.

But as to how large it really is - is a real question if only baptismal records are used.

Baptismal records are a POOR accounting of the number of real Christians in any Church.

And if pouring of water and a written record in a parish book somewhere is the only link between people and the Church, that can hardly be said to constitute real membership in the Church.

Statistical membership, yes . . .

Alex

Oh, I wasn't composing these sentences; I was just sifting through the original news article and replacing Easter-Rite Catholic Churches with Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome.

Father Peter:

If not too private, Could you please tell us a little bit about your religious experience in Romania? was it with the Greek Catholic Church? Are you a member of the Greek Catholic Church now? Is there any monastery of the BRU in Romania, is there any latinization, or it is Eastern?

Oh too much questions, I hope Im not bothering :p

Orthodox in communion with Rome has always worked for me...why not say it like it is? If this is really our identity, why fool around?

Many non-Catholic or non-Orthodox people hear 'Eastern' and they think far eastern...like Tibetan, Chinese, Indian, etc.

Hmmm, Alex, I like to think that Orthodox not in Communion with Rome are simply Catholics who are experimenting with non-communion with Rome to see where it ends up.

ChristTeen287

Remie,

Not to many questions at all. My experience in Romania has not been with the Greek Catholic Church. When I made my first visit to Romania in 1992, the church had just regained her legal status, and there were not to many places of worship. You see the church was brutally surpressed by the communists and was just coming back out from the catacombs.

Another point is that the area I was in is not a big Greek Catholic population center anyway.

My experience was with orthodox Christians, and orthodox monasticism. I would recomend that people take a trip to Romania to experience this first hand. How they were able to get by under the most oppressive communist regim in Eastern Europe.

I hope that answered your question.

Peter

Dear Peter,

I remember reading of a fellow who went into a mountainous area of Romania in winter and was struck by the sweet-smell of roses.

He asked his tour-guide what manner of flower blooms in winter in his country . . .

The guide simply replied saying that the caves on the sides of the mountains are the burial places for many holy ascetics who lived and died there.

Their relics are incorrupt and exude the odour of sanctity . . .

Alex

Brothers, brothers--

Does the title really matter? The term Catholic has been used by the Church since the beginning of the second century when it seems that it was already commonly used by everyone.

I also believe that Orthodox is interchangeable. To be Orthodox is to "speak correctly." In the Church it means that your doctrine is correct and your worship is correct.

My Orthodox mentors used to stress to me that a theology that is not prayed is the theology of the Enemy. Liturgy that is reduced to fight about rubrics alone is another danger.

Is not our common goal the building up of a deep, intimate relationship with Jesus Christ? Is that not our common patrimony, divided though we may be by theology at times and jurisdictions at times? Is not our goal beyond this first goal--our own relationship with Christ--the drawing of others to Christ by our own example of faith lived out?

I've lived in the Latin Church and been criticized for wanting a deeper prayer life. I've lived in the Orthodox Church and been suspected of being a closet Latin. I'm back in the Latin Church for a variety of reasons and criticized for keeping my personal Byzantine discipline. So what. Faith tested in fire grows deeper and stronger; it carries one through a lot of tough life situations. I believe that I can truly breathe with both lungs of the Church and I am comfortable anywhere with any one who calls himself a follower of Christ.

After a few decades of struggle, my prayer has taken on a deeper, stronger depth that it did not have at the beginning. At a retreat the chaplain asked me to pray for him before he gave his talks. Someone from a former charismatic background said he could feel the power of my prayer. Maybe the Holy Spirit was at work. I don't know. But many of the other men at the retreat have asked me since what they could do to follow my example because they wanted a relationship with Jesus Christ like I have. I don't know what I have, the Lord knows and will tell me some day. But I keep at the discipline and help those who cross my path.

Isn't that what we are talking about? Or am I "off the wall" again?

BOB

Dear Bob,

You've been criticized in BOTH the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

In the Ukrainian Catholic Church, you have the best of BOTH worlds!

That's why I'm an "Orthodox Catholic"

God bless,

Alex

Yes, the "best of both worlds" is a glorious phrase. I generally use the term Byzantine Catholic -- I have all the treasures of Eastern Christianity and I am under the Holy Father and we are very blessed to be living in a time of a very holy Holy Father.

And, also, yes -- "Faith tested in fire grows stronger." Christianity has always been built on the blood of the martyrs. Or as another said not too long ago, "the apostolic zeal of a persecuted Church."

There is nothing better than to be a follower of Jesus Christ.

"There is nothing better than to be a follower of Jesus Christ."

AMEN.

Alex, I also had a Ukrainian Catholic priest tell me that his church was not interested in having people of Latin background who had had experience in the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches.

But I let it all pass so as to live St. Paul's admonistions in Romans 14: 13--". . . let us no longer judge one another, but rather resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother." (NAB) Also 15:2--"let each of us please our neighbor for the good, for building up." (NAB)

How about the Beatitudes? "Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in Heaven."

I believe that to be men of faith is to be misunderstood and even hated as the Lord tells us in the Gospels. But I remind myself that the Apostles ranked it a blessing to be so treated.

Thank God for the tremendous witness and strength I have been able to draw from reading and participating in this forum.

BOB

Dear Bob,

I am truly sorry that we have priests such as the one you mentioned!

I guess those kinds of attitudes come from too much seminary and too much focusing on one's ethnic self.

Or it could just come from basic ignorance.

Fr. Bohdan Lypsky, a great Byzantinist in our parish of St Nicholas in Toronto, was conversant with many different Eastern traditions.

He gave weddings for Macedonian Orthodox and was amazed at their knowledged of their own traditions - he said they were more precise and purist than any Russian Orthodox he knew.

He knew well the monks of the Anglican Monastery up the street from the parish, wrote about them and mentioned them in his sermons.

When he found out that my mother was of Romanian background, he went out of his way to make her feel at home in the Ukrainian Church and actually discussed Romanian traditions in some of his sermons and lectures in the church hall.

They put his "death mask" in the back of the chapel in the church which is where we had our 40-day Liturgy for my Godfather.

It was especially moving to me to be there with that mask (strange as it appears) hanging on the back wall.

Fr. Lypsky assisted Bishop Borecky at my baptism.

Alex