www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Viability of "rites" in a reunited church

The Byzantine ethos seems to have the ability to survive even under circumstances where one would expect it not to.

Certain Slavic groups, which have been incorporated into Lutheranism, have retained a modified form of the Liturgy of St.John Chrysostom. That fact proves just how resilient and adaptable the liturgical part of the Byzantine ethos is. I understand there has also been a revival of iconography among one of these groups;the same can be said for Byzantine prayer and a revival of interest in the spiritual works of Eastern monks, etc.

I think it is good to remember that the Syrian liturgy has survived within the Anglican Communion.

I believe there is more room for optimism than the pessimists realize.

Papal Supremacy:

In two-thousand years of Christian history, the East has never accepted (as a general and guiding principle) "Papal Supremacy."

There are not a few Orthodox, especially among the more educated and liberal laity in Europe, who would sooner accept union with the Lutherans and Anglicans than submit to papal supremacy. It is important to remember that only a very small minority of Orthodox are Americans (although their economic clout makes them inordinately influential; a reality non-American Orthodox resent.)

I do not believe the American Orthodox should be used as a mirror or model of Orthodoxy in general.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Ephraim Reynolds ]

Thomas,

I was not advocating reading psalms. I agree with your point of view. I was just saying that comparatively speaking, i prefer chanting canons with their many complex melodies.

anastasios

I still stand by my proposal to elect Popes using a bicameral system - one assembly of Cardinals, one assembly of the leaders of the Eastern Churches. The candidate must get 2/3 + 1 vote of each chamber. I know this got panned when I proposed it here months ago, but I still think it would be the best system to prevent the election of a Pope inimical to Eastern Church interests.

The only problem I see with this is that the amount of leaders of Eastern Churches, to my knowledge, are outnumbered by the number of Cardinals. If I'm wrong, then the rest of this paragraph is useless. But if I'm right, and assuming that no Eastern prelate would want to be a Cardinal (it's a Latin thing, not an Eastern thing) or would be asked to be one, then what you propose leads to this...the Cardinals are only going to vote for candidates amongst themselves, and then the Eastern prelates would have to vote for Cardinals whom they don't know well. That doesn't work.

Um, no. :p

The Syrian liturgy was "edited" not by the Anglicans, but by the Syrians in union with them, in the name of embracing reformation practices and theology. I've seen this firsthand. The liturgy practiced by them is not the Syrian liturgy. It has the structure, uses the vestments, and many of the same prayers as the Syrian liturgy, but it's very different, different enough that I wouldn't classify it as "the Syrian liturgy", but "an adaptation of the Syrian liturgy fit for Protestants".

Take it from someone who knows firsthand...

I stand corrected----for now. I will get a second or third opinion.

Regards,

ER

You missed the "bicameral" part.

Each group would have to approve the candidate. That means that even if the Cardinals approve candidate X, the Eastern Leaders could block the election.

So, if X is proposed at conclave, and Patriarch P says to his Eastern compatriots, "Hey, this guy tries to Latinize Eastern Churches," they can say NO as a group, and if 1/3 of them say NO, then it wouldn't matter how big a majority X had among the Cardinals.

So, if X is proposed at conclave, and Patriarch P says to his Eastern compatriots, "Hey, this guy tries to Latinize Eastern Churches," they can say NO as a group, and if 1/3 of them say NO, then it wouldn't matter how big a majority X had among the Cardinals.

That's my thing though...assuming that the Eastern leaders aren't Cardinals, how well do they know the Cardinals and their views? Does a resume or prospectus of some sort get issued before a conclave? How does this work?

I stand corrected----for now. I will get a second or third opinion.

When you get these opinions, be sure that you get them from unbiased folks--not those who dislike the Orthodox liturgy and Church in favour of Protestantism, or those who dislike the Protestants or anyone else and only have tolerance and love for the Orthodox--but someone who can objectively look at both liturgies side by side. I recognise the Syrian nature of their liturgy, but I also recognise the Roman features of some Protestant "liturgies", but I don't call them the Roman liturgy. :p