www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Brotherhood of Man/Christ the Savior Brotherhood

Both the OCA and the Serb Archdiocese have received groups from the above group(s), particularly in the west. I am interested in how successful existing orthodox congregations have been in accomodating their ethos along with their own. Any observations?

Dear Jim,

I was not aware that this had happened. Do you know something about this process? Do you have some contact with these congregations? Can you tell us something about how this has been accomplished? Why are interested in their journey?

Thank you!

Elias

I have met one former Brotherhood of Mans priest who was received into the OCA- first words out of his mouth were "Uniate" but to be fair, when I said I came from the Eastern Catholic tradition, he apologized!

I have sent Hieromonk Elias a private message concerning the reasons for my original post. There are many differences between the CSB group and the local OCA parish in customs, training, and liturgics. I thank the 2 of you for responding.

For the unlearned masses (me), what are these two groups?

Mor Ephrem,

Here is a link, which admittedly is biased:

http://www.pokrov.org/hoom.html

I would rather state my own opinions privately.

Michael

I think that the core feature is 'organic development'. When a community/group 'discovers' Orthodoxy, and decides that Orthodoxy embodies the true faith of the 'ancient Church', they may decide to align themselves with 'Orthodoxy' as an affirmation of their commitment to Apostolic Christianity. The key point is that they don't include the 2,000 years of history that have intervened.

My personal concern with the Brotherhood of the Savior, the Holy Order of Mans, etc. is the fact that they think that adopting the externals of the Byzantine Church, as well as adopting the Church's theology, etc., means that they are part of the Orthodox/Byzantine community.

While this perspective might be valid from a Western Church understanding of development of faith, these criteria don't really hold much validity from the Eastern perspective. For us, it is really the organic development through participation in the ongoing history of the community. That means: you've got to be around for a significant amount of time before you are really a part of the community.

While this may not make some of the neophytes happy (in terms of 'belonging'), it seems to me to be part of the reality.

Blessings!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr John:

>>>My personal concern with the Brotherhood of the Savior, the Holy Order of Mans, etc. is the fact that they think that adopting the externals of the Byzantine Church, as well as adopting the Church's theology, etc., means that they are part of the Orthodox/Byzantine community.

While this perspective might be valid from a Western Church understanding of development of faith, these criteria don't really hold much validity from the Eastern perspective. For us, it is really the organic development through participation in the ongoing history of the community. That means: you've got to be around for a significant amount of time before you are really a part of the community.<<<

I've always worried about your lack of historical consciousness, Dr. John, and herein we have a good example. I think that these groups which decide, en masse, to become "Byzantine" are really no different than those peoples like the Bulgarians and the Rus who were converted en masse when their rulers decided that Byzantine Christianity was the way to go. These peoples received the entire Byzantine patrimony as a mature, holistic system at a single moment, and undoubtedly there was a lot of displacement, a lot of misunderstanding, and a lot of "dual belief" that persisted for decades, yea, even for centuries (and right down into the modern era in some places).

Protestant and other groups that come into the Orthodox Church (I've never heard of one coming into the Byzantine Catholic Churches) as a group are similar, though smaller. They receive the patrimony as an integral unit. They may not understand it entirely. They may, in their zeal, exaggerate certain aspects of the Tradition at the expense of balance. But, if they are provided with strong and wise spiritual leaders, these problems damp out over time, and the people internalize and assimilate the Tradition, while at the same time bringing into it their own unique energy, insights and perspectives which enrich the mixture that is Byzantine Christianity. The notion that this can only be accomplished by individuals, and only putting in a significant amount of time (And who gets to decide what that is? Have I paid my dues yet? If not, how much do I owe?) ignores not only the history of the Eastern Churches, but also the spiritual reality of our communities, Orthodox and Eastern Catholic alike, where some of the most spiritually dead members of the community are precisely those who have been in it the longest and become utterly assimilated into its ethos.