www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall OUTRAGE IN ENGLAND GIRL SENT HOME FROM SCHOOL FOR WEARING CRUCIFIX

Dear Myles,

I understand there are some areas in London and England where local councils have voted to BAN the flying of the Union Jack as a symbol of colonial oppression . . .

"In days of yore, from Britain's shore, Wolf, the mighty warrior sailed, and planted high, Britannia's flag . . ."

Alex

This doesn't surprise me at all! One, I think it is disgusting! On the news here, the day after Thanksgiving, I've been hearing non-stop about the "War on Christmas" which some say isn't going on at all, then I hear at some place I can't recall the city, a Nativity could be set up without the Holy Family! Before anybody says I took this out of context, the words ARE NOT "VER BATUM" but make the point. The reporter went on to say a cow, lamb were present, no Wise Men and a Sherperd boy was present. Growing up this used to be called "The Christmas Season" now people don't want Christmas trees called what they are, they want them called "Holiday Trees" and aetheist's are wanting "In God We Trust" off of U.S. money and yet they use this same money to buy groceries, medicine, gas, pay their mortgage etc. and several nights ago an elderly couple who always love to being in the Christmas Season by decorating indoors and outdoors, well, a person or persons stole their outdoor Nativity!!! Yes, the lit candy canes were there along with Santa, Frosty and Rudolph, they stole just the Nativity! And at our Mall yesterday a security guard told me I should "tuck" my crucifix in my t-shirt, I told him if the curcifix bothered him or any "holiday shoppers" this is America, a free country and they are free to move! I don't know what is coming next, my wife said someone may say I need/have to remove the three bar crucifix sticker on our car and the Holy Famiy sticker! My apologies, this is "Christmas Time" instead it's become the "Season of Greedmas" for some.

I mean no disrespect to the Cross, of course! I wear one....

But I can understand and think of many reasons why a school might ban jewelry. It is a reasonable law.

Jewelry, necklaces, bracelets, piercings etc. can get out of hand. A simple law, uniformly enforced, may actually be in everyone's best interest.

the unworthy,
Elias

Well, the administrators did make a good point, which is that Christianity doesn't require any special equipment (badges? we don't need no stinkin' badges! ) - the sign of our membership is in our hearts, not around our necks.

Maybe we should just smile and express our sympathy for those other religions which don't allow their adherents to wear whatever they choose ...

It's the principle here that I find so offensive. Personally, I don't wear any overt signs of my faith, BUT if I'm told I can't wear it, then I will wear it. The enemies of Christ are the ones who are always moving the yardsticks and determining what is and isn't acceptable. It's high time the process was reversed.

Okay, everyone: what would you say if a kid wanted to wear a pentacle, or some other occult symbol, claiming it represented their religious beliefs, and the school said "no" for the same reasons? Would you support their right to wear whatever they wanted? If not, why?

(Obviously I'm just playing devil's advocate here :rolleyes: , but do think it's worth pondering.)

Theist Gal

Forty years ago no one would have asked such a question. Unfortunately though we've become so accustomed to having to accept every deviant idea that comes down the pike, that as a society, we're losing the ability to discern right from wrong in the simplest of matters.

I have been reading this discussion while preparing for and taking my PhD comprehensive exams, so did not have much time to respond. I was glad to see one response which really understood the issue -- it is an issue of school rules. They are known and should be followed. It is not a cross which is objected to -- and if the girl wanted to wear a cross, just get t-shirts with crosses on them. It is jewelry.

Now it has been said "what about Sikhs?" There is a different issue going on when one discusses what is necessary in religion vs what is just someone's desire for an external decoration (and let's face it, the girl's family points out she really doesn't possess the Christian faith). Even if she were a Christian, however, it is not necessary for her to wear a cross, it is not an obligation.

The whole story reminds me of someone claiming "racism" if they fail a class in high school. Instead of racism, it is a claim of religious discrimination, but it seems it is only being used to justify a kid's desire to rebel and not any real concern for the Christian faith.

Okay, let me rephrase the question - what if it were a Catholic school and the child had been sent home for wearing Sikh jewelry? Would you come to her defense?

No, I wouldn't support her right. A Catholic school is a private institution, and as such it should have the right to expect it's students to conduct themselves in a manner that does not run contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So it's okay for Christians to discriminate against non-Christians, but it's not okay for public schools to discrimate against Christians. Got it!

Generally, you can make a safety or decorum standard that you consistently apply across the board.

Example: I went to public school. Jeans with visible holes were not allowed. Shorts were not allowed. T-shirts with obscenities or suggestive messages on them were not allowed. That was a decorum standard. Students were also not permitted to wear "mohawks" or to dye their hair eccentric colors (which they actually defined). Violate those rules, they sent you home, you got an unexcused absence on your record, and if you got too many of those, you'd get left back. One person challenged the policy. Unsuccessfully. Jewelry was not allowed in shop class in my high school. That was a safety issue. I liked shop class. It was fun. I would remove a religious medal I customarily do not take off when I was in shop class. I didn't like to remove it, but I did it. The rules were clear, as were the reasons for them. We got a rule book the first week of school, followed by a brief assembly where changes from the prior year were pointed out and the opportunity to ask questions was given.

I don't care why that girl was wearing a crucifix, really. Her parent says she believes in God. Just because she does not regularly attend church does not mean she is a "lost cause" to Christianity. A lot of kids go through that phase. We don't know her or the how, what, when, where and why of her life. We've got a couple lines to go off of in an article.

Frankly, I suspect political correctness on the part of the school, which is wrong. Sort of like the nonsense in France. Let the Christians wear their crosses, let the Muslim girls wear their headscarves. (Hey, the Muslim girls aren't required to wear them, either, technically. It is a pious gesture of humility, admirable in those who sincerely mean it.)

If you want to have decorum standards, they should be reasonably designed to exclude the outrageous. (My school did this successfully.) If you have a safety issue, then by all means you ban jewelry when that safety issue exists. I suspect Euro-p.c.-disease in this case, though, not an honest attempt to maintain decorum and safety.

Btw, you know what happen to the baddies at my school who couldn't obey the rules? After they got into too much trouble and were on the verge of being expelled, they ended up in Catholic school! Entertaingly, although they had uniforms, they were not as strict in nearly every way as the public high school. (The public high school I went to ranked very highly in the state, it was one of the top schools. Maybe reasonable rules that are enforced fairly really do help kids, eh?)

Sort of. A Catholic school that is truly a 100% private institution and that isn't taking any money or aid from any level of the government can probably do that pretty easily. Most of them wouldn't, though.

I know my nephew went to an all boys Catholic prep where there were two Muslim boys. Just as my niece went to an all girls Catholic prep where there was a Muslim girl. No one told the Muslim girl not to wear a head scarf, although as I recall she did not choose to wear one. (Not all Muslims interpret that the same way. She did opt for the long pants and long sleeves uniform, though. Very modest.) As far as I heard, the kids went to Catholic school because they were from religious families that were concerned that they study in an appropriately moral environment!

I have also had the pleasure of knowing a Baptist minister who went to Catholic school as a young man. (I met him in a moral theology class after I got out of law school several years back.) His mom wanted him to have the best education she could get him. He spoke so highly of Catholic education and Catholicism generally. He isn't a Catholic, but Catholics made him feel welcome as a kid and that stuck with him.

Catholic schools shouldn't tolerate behavior that flies in the face of Catholic belief, but embracing people who don't think like us is definitely a most Christian sentiment. Besides, like I said, the local Catholic school when I was a kid got all the baddies from my school. But you know what? They did turn a lot of them on the right course because they could afford to give a little more personal attention.

THEIST GAL, while I do not post much on here, when I do, I cause problems! My son wore a t-shirt to the high school with a celtic cross on it, I received a phone call from the principal that I needed to bring him another shirt! Yesterday, while talking to some of my son's friends, three students walked all wearing proudly large BAPHOMETS! And behind was the assistant principal, I asked the assistant principal why the students are allowed to wear the Baphomet which the Satanist's wear. His reply, "Freedom of expression!" I think the point is made clearly, it is o.k. to express the occult in school, but when it comes to God, obviously He has no place in schools at all!

Sadly it continues over here No Christmas in School [telegraph.co.uk]

If you can't access this please say so and I will paste it in.

Things like this make me feel ashamed of this country - Scotland is not yet as bad - but it's going that way unless we are careful